No driver orders at Mclaren?/McLaren under investigation

[Paulc]

Is Ron Dennis having a laugh suggesting that there are no driver orders at Mclaren,Hamilton was way quicker than Alonso towards the closing stages at Monaco and obviously backed off.I think Dennis wanted to play mind games with the other teams and have his two guys at the top of the drivers champ, it also looks good for the sponsors.No wonder Hamilton was looking so miffed at the press conference!.

[Inigo Montoya]

Hmmm perhaps Alonso also backed off, no? Really, this team orders controversy is tiring.

[Knowlesy]

It's an entirely pointless debate. But pretend you are the McLaren team boss in that situation. Running 1-2, comfortable, 18 points in the bag. All the stops are done, ticking off the final laps. Do you let Hamilton have a go at Alonso? Is that intelligent? Around Monaco?

No. Besides Alonso backed off and that is the only reason Lewis got close. We saw clearly today who was quickest and the quickest guy won. The result was justice to the drivers and McLaren.

There is nothing to get excited about really.

[JeremySmith]

From my perspective I believe the Lewis could have caught Fernando, but to be on the safe side RD told them not to fight it out..Which in one way is not racing really! On the other hand at a circuit like Monaco a one and a two finish is better than the wall....There is nothing to get excited about really, as Knowlesy says...In fact why did I post this I have just repeated your thoughts, excuse me for that..

[Inigo Montoya]

I doubt he would have caught him in an all out scrap. But even if he had caught him, would he have passed him? At Monaco? Forget it.

[JeremySmith]

He got very close at one point though Inigo, could have been a tremendous end to a rather subdued race..

[Paulc]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

It's an entirely pointless debate. But pretend you are the McLaren team boss in that situation. Running 1-2, comfortable, 18 points in the bag. All the stops are done, ticking off the final laps. Do you let Hamilton have a go at Alonso? Is that intelligent? Around Monaco?

No. Besides Alonso backed off and that is the only reason Lewis got close. We saw clearly today who was quickest and the quickest guy won. The result was justice to the drivers and McLaren.

There is nothing to get excited about really.

No way, Hamiltons lap times came down considerably when he was catching Alonso and then went up,what I am getting at is that RD says no team orders and likes to make out hes guys are racers,but again drab modern F1 tactics ruin the day.Do you remember the good old days Senna mansell at Monaco RACING..........................they used to do that once

[Paulc]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

He got very close at one point though Inigo, could have been a tremendous end to a rather subdued race..

Couldnt agree more sir!

[SRabbit]

As much as I am a massive fan and would have loved to have seen Lewis win his first race, the right guy won this weekend.

Hamilton admitted he hit a lot of barriers throughout the race, and we saw him more than once run into a corner too hot and understeer, and generally make a meal of things.

For me Alsonso drove a perfect race. He responded when Lewis upped his efforts, and I didn't see Alonso lock a brake, miss an apex, understeer, oversteer, run off line through a corner - nothing - it was clinical - and he deserved the result.

[ralf fan]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

He got very close at one point though Inigo, could have been a tremendous end to a rather subdued race..

Would he have gotten close had Dennis assured Alonso that Hamilton would not be making a move? I doubt it. Alonso was roughly 10 secs ahead after the second round of stops and within 2-3 laps that gap evaporated. I highly doubt Hamilton was 3 seconds quicker per lap on merit.

[JeremySmith]

Did Lewis not get to within 3-5 Seconds of Fernando though? maybe I am mistaken.

[Frank_White]

The team orders are clear from the following points:

1. Lewis was fuelled five or six laps more than Alonso for qualifying. To much for him to have a realistic run for pole and too little to run a one stop. Besides the option tire degraded too much on a heavy fuel load and Lewis could not realistically run 51 laps with the option tyre. Ron's explanation about Lewis being initially on a one stop is BS. Moreover, any fool knows that pole is important to win in Monaco.

2. Lewis was called in 2 to 3 laps early for his first stop negating any possibility of him passing Alonso.

3. Lewis was called in about 6 laps early in the second stop.

If the strategies were reversed Lewis would have won easily in Monaco.

[Smokey 6 litre]

the common conception is that Ron allows his drivers to race as they wish upto the second stops, then to hold position after.
Anyway, i thimk alonso always had the little bit extra that he needed to keep lewis at bay!

[deejay]

Originally Posted by Frank_White

The team orders are clear from the following points:

1. Lewis was fuelled five or six laps more than Alonso for qualifying. To much for him to have a realistic run for pole and too little to run a one stop. Besides the option tire degraded too much on a heavy fuel load and Lewis could not realistically run 51 laps with the option tyre. Ron's explanation about Lewis being initially on a one stop is BS. Moreover, any fool knows that pole is important to win in Monaco.

2. Lewis was called in 2 to 3 laps early for his first stop negating any possibility of him passing Alonso.

3. Lewis was called in about 6 laps early in the second stop.

If the strategies were reversed Lewis would have won easily in Monaco.

Very creative.

[deeks6]

Originally Posted by Frank_White

The team orders are clear from the following points:

1. Lewis was fuelled five or six laps more than Alonso for qualifying. To much for him to have a realistic run for pole and too little to run a one stop. Besides the option tire degraded too much on a heavy fuel load and Lewis could not realistically run 51 laps with the option tyre. Ron's explanation about Lewis being initially on a one stop is BS. Moreover, any fool knows that pole is important to win in Monaco.

2. Lewis was called in 2 to 3 laps early for his first stop negating any possibility of him passing Alonso.

3. Lewis was called in about 6 laps early in the second stop.

If the strategies were reversed Lewis would have won easily in Monaco.

I like this ...

Similarly, if:

1. If there were 16 retirements and not 3 DC would have won (easily).
2. If Alonso had tripped over on Saturday and injured himself and McLaren flew in Sebastian Bourdais, Bourdais would have won.
3. If the Ferrari was a second a lap faster, Massa would have won.
4. If it was a rally, Sebastian Loeb would have won.
5. If you could only run last years cars, Scott Speed would have won.
6. If he did'nt retire, Michael Schumacher would have won.
7. If it was a NASCAR race, JPM still wouldnt have won.
8. If Ferrari had not been so silly and signed Raikkonen, maybe Hamilton would be driving a Spyker and he definitely would not have won.
9. If his biorythms were right Ralf would have finished 15th and been driver of the race.
10. If it was GP4, I would have beaten all of them.

[Armco Bender]

Team driver No1 was first and team driver No2 was second,thats how it should be in F1.

[Doc Hollywood]

Originally Posted by deeks6

I like this ...

Similarly, if:

1. If there were 16 retirements and not 3 DC would have won (easily).
2. If Alonso had tripped over on Saturday and injured himself and McLaren flew in Sebastian Bourdais, Bourdais would have won.
3. If the Ferrari was a second a lap faster, Massa would have won.
4. If it was a rally, Sebastian Loeb would have won.
5. If you could only run last years cars, Scott Speed would have won.
6. If he did'nt retire, Michael Schumacher would have won.
7. If it was a NASCAR race, JPM still wouldnt have won.
8. If Ferrari had not been so silly and signed Raikkonen, maybe Hamilton would be driving a Spyker and he definitely would not have won.
9. If his biorythms were right Ralf would have finished 15th and been driver of the race.
10. If it was GP4, I would have beaten all of them.

Classic! Well said!

[brands]

Every time Hamilton set a fast lap Alonso beat it in the race. Alonso had Lewis covered throughout the whole race.

Plus, do you really believe Hamilton could have passed Alonso ??? especially as there was only one pass on track all race.

As a McLaren fan I watched most of the race waiting for one or other car to fly off into a barrier, both drivers were at it 100% for the first 60 laps (regardless of what Dennis said afterwards), both in the 15s and 16s when all around were in the 17s or 18s, but at no time did I think Hamilton could win.

Hamilton has shown Alonso and Dennis that he can at least match Alonso for speed over one lap ( his qually3 time being within 2/10ths of Alonso with 3-5 more laps worth of fuel and being held up by Webber(?) but Lewis is still short of pace throughout a race......not bad for a rookie though

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by Paulc

.Do you remember the good old days Senna mansell at Monaco RACING..........................they used to do that once

Errr, would that be the days when Senna was in a McLaren and Mansell in a Williams? I can just imagine Ron walking down to Frank's garage and asking him to ask Nigel not to race Ayrton

Fernando had Lewis covered all race, was plenty fast enough upto and including the second pit stops then slowed down, there was no way Lewis would have got past.

I point you to the 2003 race, Juan Pablo in a Williams, Kimi in a McLaren and Michael in a Ferrari, Juan Pablo slowed the pace towards the end of the race, effectively pushing Kimi back into Michaels clutches yet still neither driver could get past him.

But just imagine Ron said, ok guys, race one another and Lewis took himself and Fernando out? Championships have been lost on far less than 18 points.

Sure Lewis would have been disappointed not to win yesterday, but when he watches the race again (proberbly already done so) he will realise that he didn't have a chance because Fernando was too strong for him yesterday.

[amier]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

Did Lewis not get to within 3-5 Seconds of Fernando though? maybe I am mistaken.

Alonso was so slow after his last pit stop for a lap or so that it looked like he almost had a problem. He was cruising and was not pushing or stressing the car anymore than he should be.

Give Alonso credit for the win instead of saying Hamilton could have won or team orders let him down etc.

[Adam43]

I dreaded this thread happening.

We are going to have lap times, gaps, supposed fuel loads, apparently behaviours in press confernces all pointing to facts about team orders.

[Glen]

Lewis lost the race on Saturday, purely through bad luck at catching Webber at the wrong moment - one down to experience. No doubt he was quicker than Alonso though - but whether he could have sustained that pace for an entire race is another matter. Amazingly Hamilton was so quick in quali 3 with so much more fuel on board. I do agree though that he could not have made the supersoft tyres last for the second stint of a one stop strategy.

Alonso drove an exceptional race, coped with the pressure brilliantly, and delivered just like a Champion should.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Glen

Lewis lost the race on Saturday, purely through bad luck at catching Webber at the wrong moment - one down to experience. No doubt he was quicker than Alonso though - but whether he could have sustained that pace for an entire race is another matter. Amazingly Hamilton was so quick in quali 3 with so much more fuel on board. I do agree though that he could not have made the supersoft tyres last for the second stint of a one stop strategy.

Alonso drove an exceptional race, coped with the pressure brilliantly, and delivered just like a Champion should.

Agree generally, except with "No doubt he was quicker than Alonso". There is doubt, Alonso had eight of the top ten fastest laps. It almost seemed to me that Alonso chose to be faster when he wanted to be. The beginning of the race, the stints and then when Hamilton got a tad close after Alonso's tardy laps.

[BootsOntheSide]

Alonso eased off towards the end, and Lewis put on a few fast laps as a show for the fans, a demonstration that in normal circumstances he can match Fernando's pace. Lewis wasn't denied a chance to win the race, he was the slower McLaren driver overall and had spells when he couldn't live with Fernando's pace. It wasn't a very entertaining race, but the blame for that goes to Kimi, and perhaps Ferrari in general.

[Kebab]

Absolute rubbish that Hamilton was faster than Alonso. After the 2nd pit stop Alonso slowed to 1m18s (probably having a break and a kitkat) which allowed Hamilton to catch right up. Once the kitkat was finished, Alonso immediately dropped into the 1m16s and pulled away from Hamilton. Hamilton's car was sliding, touching barriers - Alonso's was not.

Alonso probably was obeying team orders when he slowed down to 1m18s ... so that must mean Hamilton ignored them.

The only time Hamilton made big enough inroads into Alonso's lead was in traffic ... and that was swings and roundabouts (i.e. caught up 3 secs then lost them again).

With a clear track, after Alonso's first stop Hamilton was only 1-2tenths faster meaning even with 5 laps he had no chance. I think they called him in to stop him binning it, personally.

Alonso showed his World Championship class at Monaco. Hamilton will get his wrist smacked by Dennis for sure.