Paul Tracy

[Joe Fan]

I am sorry to say but I think Paul Tracy should get axed from Team Green. How many more incidents will Barry Green allow before he wisely cuts him loose? It has become quite apparent to me that Paul continually drives like a bull in a china closet and doesn't deserve the championship caliber ride that he is still in. He has talent but it is talent that would be better served in the NASCAR Craftsman Truck series. I once thought that he was Busch Grand National material but that would be a step up for him. Even BGN driver Buckshot Jones is not that brutal of a driver.

I can't think of one driver in any other series that has taken his teammate out three times in less than two years. Nor can I think of one other driver that is the enigma that Tracy is, shows talent and capable of good drives on occasion but brutal on too many other occasions. He has ran into other cars in just about way possible this year: in the pits, entering corners and even exiting corners.

[Crash Test]

Couldn't put it better myself

As ya'll know I've lost count of the number of times he has made contact this year...i'd say put him in F1, might liven the show up a bit Remember he had a test for Benneton a long time ago..

He would have been champion in 93 had he been more consistant and not hit everything on the track...and to be truthful, i doubt that he has changed much since then..

[Heeltoe6]

Houston 98: Dario chopped off Paul's nose even though Paul had position, and Dario had been blocking. Paul spun himself basically so not to take Dario out.

Gateway 99: Toss-up.

Chicago 00. Tracy had 2 wheels under the white line, Dario again comes down on him

Fact, in 2 of these three cases(houston, gateway), Dario wasn't "taken out." In both cases he scored pts, and he even won Houston.

Paul's clean, imho, in at least 2 of these three incidents.

btw, who'd Paul hit in the pits. I don't remember that? I know he hit a crewmen at Detriot, but not another car?

Joe, who does deserve the TKG ride then. Dario, whose performance has been pitful this year? Tracy has produced more wins since he went full time in 93 than any other driver. So how can you say he doesn't deserve the ride. I don't see how you can say Paul isn't championship caliber. 3rd in pts last year while missing a race. Was leading this year, but pit penalties(and some of the weirdest ones too), have been the real culprit in his fall in pts.

Bottom line is that a driver such as Zanardi can get away with the same $hit paul does cause he's lucky he didn't wreck anybody. Even so, Z was still on probabtion and fined a lot, but very few people demanded that he be kicked out of TCGR.

In any case, you may get your wish Joe. Strong rumors from Seventhgear.com that Tracy may go to Player's-Forsythe

[Crash Test]

So do you think Paul brings the worst out in Dario? Is it strange that Paul is the car coming from behind in these instances? Maybe there should be some more communication within the team then? How many other team mates continue to take each other out?

"who'd Paul hit in the pits"
-I do remember he ran into Micheal (i think) at Long Beach...actually was there another occasion too?

"Dario, whose performance has been pitful this year?"
-Remeber he had a massive preseason shunt...

"3rd in pts last year while missing a race."
-Ah, Dario tied for the win remember?
And why did he miss a race? Was it because he shunted Andretti on the Gold Coast the previous year?

"Even so, Z was still on probabtion and fined a lot, but very few people demanded that he be kicked out of TCGR."
-Ah, correct me if im wrong, but weren't most of his fines and probation due to his donuts after WINNING the race?

[AndrettiRULES]

I have to agree with HeelToe6 on this one. This case was definitely not Tracy's fault IMO, but more Franchitti's. He just completely came down onto Paul. At one point Tracy was nearly alongside him, side-by-side..but soon attempted to bail out and get on the brakes, but it was too late as Franchitti came down running his normal line. It was a case of Dario not watching his mirrors and realizing Tracy had come down there.....maybe Dario doesn't think that Paul is going to make attempts at passing him since they're teammates?! And thus he doesn't watch his mirrors much when PT is behind him.....

AR

[Minardi fan]

It's a bit of a 50-50. Tracy was attempting a rather risky move, but at the same time Franchitti was a bit silly in trying to close him off like that.

[Joe Fan]

Heeltoe, I can't blame Dario for the lastest incident because Paul tried to make something that wasn't there. I might assign some blame on Dario's part if Paul had moved up more on Dario before entering the corner. You can't expect a driver, other than a bonehead, to come up like Paul did. Is a driver supposed to watch his mirrors at all times and totally change his line into the corner for idiots who don't even have any kind of position going into a tight corner? Last year, Mario and Paul tangled in the same corner and at least Michael had more of a run on Paul and they were both battling for position. It was a lift or make me lift situation. But this one was different, Paul blindly sticking his nose into a situation where he had nothing. I think it is clear after all the incidents that Paul has had in the past, that he should get axed. Face the facts, he is brutal, an enigma and is wasting a championship caliber ride.

As far as his replacement, I would take one of the hotshoes in Indy Lights, Toyota Atlantics or USAC sprints that have upside potential before I would retain Tracy. At least when a rookie makes the rookie mistakes that Paul makes (over and over), it is part of the learning process.

[KC]

I blame both for this instance. And Franchitti's spotter. What was he doing. Tracy spent at least 3 seconds inside Franchitti's rear tire and Franchitti's spotter could not have warned him to leave room? I have noticed that when Tracy gets involved in a situation like this he has just lost a position. He immediately charges back to return the favor. Sometimes this results in a situation we have seen. He gets anxious, as Barry Green put it, and does not let common sense prevail. I see this all the time in RC car racing. You soend a lap setting a guy up for a pass and in the next corner he punts you out of the way in some banzai move.

[Jay]

I like them both a lot, but having seen replay's of some of their incidents I can't possibly give all blame to Paul.

Houston was moslty Paul's fault. I would say it was all his fault but he did have his front axil ahead of Dario's rear axil. So I think Dario probably should not have chopped across.

Gateway was a tossup.

Chicago was mostly Dario's fault. When you are racing on an oval like that you have to watch out for who's above or below you at all times. Dario should have left a lane open.

Actually the incidents at Gateway and Chicago are more indicative of a bad spotter. As KC said, you have to wonder what they're spotters were doing.

On the subject of who is a better driver. I have seen them both up close, and I think Dario is a slightly better driver, as he seems to be a little more aggressive going through corners. However Paul is a lot more aggressive in Traffic. We'll see where Dario really is if he goes to F1.

[ma]

We have a saying when training new drivers : Any accident you are involved in is at least partially your fault, if for no other reason than for letting the other guy get into a position where he can put you out.

The best racers out there know this rule very well, and plan their moves according to who they are running with. If you were a driver trying to get around, say, Rick Mears, you know that he is absolutely sure where you are at all times & will modify his line accordingly. If, however, you were trying to get around someone like Dr. Jack, who hasn't a clue where he himself is, never mind you or anyone else, you would plan accordingly.

In these cases, Dario is definetely partially to blame, as he forgot who he was dealing with, and didn't drive accordingly.

[Liz]

And in fact Dario, and Barry Green, have both stated the same. It was one of those times when both men made mistakes and the fact that they happen to be teammates just exacerbated the situation. But I don't hear any whingeing about Gidley taking out Salles. Is this because y'all just don't like Paul, or because Salles and Gidley are not teammates ... or what?

[AndrettiRULES]

I myself didn't get to see the Gidley/Salles incident. ABC never showed a good replay, but I did read Gidley's statement after the race saying that he was completely to blame for the accident and it was unfortunate Salles couldn't continue like he did.

AR

[Crash Test]

Spot on Liz. I don't paerticularly like Paul for of the carnage he has been involved with over the years. They are team mates, and high profile ones at that.

[Joe Fan]

Originally posted by Liz
Is this because y'all just don't like Paul ... or what?

I personally think Paul Tracy is a nice guy off the track and he does some good things but I do not like drivers who continually put other drivers lives in danger with brain spasms. Any way you cut it, Tracy seems to get himself involved in more accidents and makes way too much contact with other cars than his peers with the same experience level. I think the guy has talent but talent that would be better served in the NASCAR Craftsman Truck series. He is not cut out for open wheel racing because he lacks the proper judgement and car control that is necessary. How long will it be before he shunts somebody real bad and causes serious injury?

[Liz]

The day after Mikey?

[Crash Test]

"The day after Mikey?"

-Good point Liz. You see the facts are that Tracy is a mad man. Everything Joe said there was true. The Mikey bashing is based upon the fact that he is a cry baby, whiner, spoilt sport whatever else you want to add...even if he is a cry baby, he can still drive with his head...

[Joe Fan]

See what I mean? Paul was his old self as usual at Mid-Ohio. Spearing Michael in the rear and then making contact with Tags, who had clearly beaten him for position, going into the corner. It should be clear by now that Paul does not have the feather-like precision driving skill to be racing open wheel cars.

[Jay]

"clearly beaten him for position, going into the corner. "

It was still a chop across, and Tags should have seen him there. It is a lot like what Franchitti did to Tracy in Chicago. Maybe Paul should have realized he was racing with a rookie. Sorry Joe, that incident was clearly Tag's mistake.

[Liz]

Agree with Jay - seeing that accident from six different angles (we got the Eurosport feed), and hearing the analysis of the two impartial commentators, one can only conclude that Tags made a rookie mistake and turned in too soon. Paul had nowhere to go.

Of course Tags said it was Paul's fault. No pilot except a Brazilian actually admits that any accident is his own fault.

Mikey has hit more of his crew than Paul. He has also suffered far fewer punishments. Guess Paul needs to get himself adopted by movie stars and a famous father.

P.S. As regards Dario, explain to me how that appallingly stupid move Dario made yesterday was Vasser's fault.

[Neil C]

Originally posted by Liz
Mikey has hit more of his crew than Paul. He has also suffered far fewer punishments. Guess Paul needs to get himself adopted by movie stars and a famous father.

...sour grapes. Have not both been disqualified this year? And Mikey's was more damaging to his points standings. Maybe they should both be adopted by a Brazilian!

I have no idea what that means, sorry.

[Joe Fan]

Tags had clearly beaten Tracy going into that corner, look at the replays. The nose of his car was past Tracy's and then it came time for somebody to back out of that situation since there was room for just one car going through that corner. Tracy was his usual self, not backing out of that situation soon enough to avoid making contact when he was beaten for position.

[Jay]

Actually there was nore than enough room for 2 cars to go through that corner at the same time. Cars had been going side by side there throught the entire race.

Tags had Paul beaten, but he hadn't completed the move yet. All Tags had to do was keep going around the outside, and Paul would have had to back off going into the next corner. But, instead Tags went for the apex, and chopped Paul's rear tires.

If he had only chopped Paul's nose slightly, I might have said it was Paul's fault, but he was not that far ahead.