Crossle (Complete Series - 1957 -69)

[DashCaptain]

Any information on current owners and serial numbers to those who own the Crossle 6F/FC, 8/10F FA, 12F FB cars, 14F Fb, 15F FA cars.

Tim Osborne FA C15F/68/39 positive identification
Jim Mederer FB C14F/68/38 " " orig owner
Ham Donaldson FB C14F/68/37 " " fathers Car
Ed Magnone FB C12F/67/36 Formerly Bruce Klussmann car alfa engine
Rob Shanahan FB C12F/67/32 Foemerly Barr Car 1968 National Championship car

Any info on 12 F cars before Ed Magnone's car # 36 and #31 would be appreciated plus any info on thwe 10F and 6f car thet Bruce Klussman brought in to the US would be great, Also looking for the other 15f. Tim Osborne has the first, Barr car, the second is some where in the US.

Please contact Hamilton Donaldson at www.strflt@hotmail.com, phone 518-569-0682

Sincerely,

Hamilton Donaldson/Crossle 14F

[David McKinney]

14F
Bill Gowdy had 014F 6942 in Ireland about ten years ago

15F
By referring to “the other” car you suggest there were two in the US. I make it three - two Chevy-powered, one Ford. Don’t know any more
Car #70-04 remained on this side of the Atlantic, and has been racing (with Frank Novak) in recent years

[Bryan Miller]

Dash Captain.

One may have escaped late 1960's to Australia , not seen for many years , and I have always wondered about it.
From memory only I think it was a 12F .

Will see what I can find out, the car has not been heard of since mid 1970's .

Regards Bryan.

[allenbrown]

Ham

Could you comment on your sources for these identifications?

Tim Osborne FA C15F/68/39 positive identification
Jim Mederer FB C14F/68/38 " " orig owner
Ham Donaldson FB C14F/68/37 " " fathers Car
Ed Magnone FB C12F/67/36 Formerly Bruce Klussmann car alfa engine
Rob Shanahan FB C12F/67/32 Foemerly Barr Car 1968 National Championship car

Have these numbers been read from chassis plates? Do they come from Roger Barr's documentation?

Thanks

Allen

[DashCaptain]

Allen,

The 15 F is from Tim Osborne's references
The 14F of Jim Mederer was from the number he gave me
The 14F that was my fathers is an assumption
Ed Mangones 12F is what he told me the other night from the chassis plate.
Robs 12F is what he has documented.

I may be wrong on my 14F.

For any interested parties please try to supply current owner, previous owner, origonal owner cHassis number if able.

Thank You,

Hamilton Donaldson

[Chris Townsend]

Does anyone know what the Jim Bandy 14F was that raced FB in 1970?

Chris

[DashCaptain]

Allen, and to all Concerned,

I just talked with Tom Claridge in California and he has a 14F that was a Crossle works car. It was raced in the UK and raced by owned and raced by Gowdy prior to that Steve Patten, before that Crossle with Brian Nelson driving it for Crossle. This car was bought by Tom Claridge from Crossle who had bought it back from Gowdy. The Chassis number is C14F/69/42, obviously constructed after the FA cars the first was the Barr FA C15F/68/39. Where did Jim Bandy race a 14F US or UK does any body Know?

Ham

[rkshanahan]

I have spoken with Rick Pinch about his 12F and it is indeed the ex-Steve Lawrence car. It is missing its chassis plate, but it seems to me we might be able to figure out which car it is. Rick is going to try to find out the names of former owners and perhaps we can trace it back to its origin. I have also spoken with Ed Mangone and he was recently called by a man in Canada with a 12F. Ed is trying to find the phone number of the Canadian owner. That would leave us with four of the six 12Fs located and three 14Fs.
Ed Mangone pointed out to me that the original chassis tag was located on the horizontal roll hoop brace, which explains why so many went missing. The roll hoops were not SCCA legal and had to be replaced before the cars could race. Unless the tag was moved to a different location, as on my car, it was lost.

Rob

[DashCaptain]

Rob,

Thats great, the biggest puzzle I see is that crossle said they only made two cars on there 30 years of history and I believe there my actually be 4. Mine, jim Mederer, Tom Claridge and one that was raced by a Jim Bandy. I found race results from 1979 that show him. I have to talk with Roger again.

Ham

[Chris Townsend]

Jim Bandy's only race appearance in a 14F, that I can trace, is at Mosport in 1970. [But I think he was an American driver.]

Chris

[DashCaptain]

Chris,
Thank you for that input, I have gotten SCCA national race results from 1970 that indicates that. I talked with Arnie Black at Crossle today and he is going to get more data from John and Mary Crossle. Just the other day he got a call from some one who has found a 12F in Canada in a barn minus engine and transmission. He thinks it is car C12F/67/33. He indicated the 11F was number 31. He also indicated serial number 34 was in the UK which makes Bill Pinch ex Steve Laurence car 35 or possibly 37. I just got a picture of Jim Mederer's 14F and he sent me a Picture of the serial plaque it is C14F/69/41. There may be a 37 12F car and my 14F may be 38.

8/10F Unknown
11F C11F/?/31 unknown where car is
12F C12F/67/32 Rob Shanahan ex Roger Barr car National Champion California
12F C12F/67/33 just found in Canada
12F C12F/67/34 in the Uk not shure of owner
12F C12F/67/35 may be Rick Pinch or not ?
12F C12F/67/36 In Bufflo New York Alfa Powered car
12F C12F/67/37 Unknown
14F C14F/68/38 I think this my Car Ham Donaldson Vermont
15F C15F/68/39 Tom Osborne Seattle Washington
15F C15F/68/40 unknown where abouts
14F C14F/69/41 Jim Mederer California
14F C14F/69/42 Tom Claridge Californial
15F C15F/69/42 or 43 in Germany

If any one can shed better light please do so

Ham Donaldson

[Bryan Miller]

Ham.

As I posted earlier , we appear to have 1 x in Australia.

My research gives the following.

At Warwick Farm 17-10-1971 Mr. Gary Alcorn ent. Crossle , blue , 1498cc .
By 3-9-1972 car was now purple and 1292cc ,BUT NOW ENTERED AS CROSSLE 12F .

Gary Alcorn kept racing the car into about 1978, when it changed hands to a Mr. Alan Johnson and fitted with a Renault 1300cc eng. Only seemed to run the car at most twice , and the car was damaged in an accident at Sydney's Oran Park circuit.
The car has not been seen since , and a report to me from one source says that the car was damaged and cut up and thrown away.

I have asked CAMS in Sydney to do a search of their old log book applications to see if we can ascertain the chassis number.
Probably too much of a coincidence for it to be anything other than the real thing.

I will try and find Gary Alcorn and find out how the car got over here.

Regards Bryan.

[DashCaptain]

Bryan,

Thank you for that info. That could possible be car 35 or 37 or on an extreme outside 31 the 11F converted to 12F. What ever information to fill in the missing gaps are greatly appreciated.

Ham

[rkshanahan]

Bryan,
That is a great piece of information. If you could come up with a chassis #, it seems we could at least pin all the 12F numbers down.

Rob

[Chris Townsend]

Jacques Couture placed 2nd at Trois Rivieres in 1968 with a Crossle.
Have no idea of model, and would appreciate any information on this car.

Chris

[rkshanahan]

Chris,
When I last spoke to Jacques couture he was the running the Jim Russell Racing School here in California. That was ten years ago, but I will see if I can locate him.

Rob

[DashCaptain]

To All,

I talked with Glen Snaychuk from Canada. He has aquired a 12F that was sitting in a barn in Canada. He is still doing research on the car to determine the chassis number. The car is minus the engine at least but mostly intact. I will inform all when we determine the chassis number.

Ham

[DashCaptain]

To All concerned,

I have senty Arnie Black at Crossle a email about starting a Crossle club of North America. I have not had a response as of yet. All Crossle cars would be included through out North America. For those that are Crossle nuts I would like to see what sort of interest there is. Please respond with any ideaspro or con.

Sincerely,
Ham Donaldson 68 Crossle 14F FB

[jkeller]

A friend of mine recently purchsed the "Canadian" 12F
It now belongs to Bob Storz from Kelowna BC.
The car is in quite good condition considering how long it has been sitting.

Bryan, did you ever find out anymore information about the car in Australia? was it chassis number 37?

I see that chassis number 35 recently sold by auction (Freemans), anyone have an idea who the new owners is?

Jim Keller

[Chris Townsend]

f/s Autoweek 15.11.75 p.25 Crossle RB72FB fresh Vegantune, 1968 Nat champ. Jim Lloyd, 2705 Coldstream, Indianapolis IN 46220.
[C12F/67/32] presumably.
Lloyd raced this in Cen Div SCCA in 1975, I have him 30th at Indianapolis Raceway Park, 21 Sept.

Chris

[DashCaptain]

Chris,

I do believe you are right regarding this being 32, Roger had mentioned that the car had gone to the midwest many years ago after he finished racing it.

I have done some more research on the cars and talked with Arnie. I think the best thing to ultimately do is go and research the records at crossle regarding the cars.

I had noticed that in the 30 years of racing history that it mentioned that the 11F had been brought up to 12F standards and that it had been shipped to the US.

This is what is known what is where and with whom:

C12F/67/32 ex Boger Barr national championship car is with Rob Shanahan in CA
C12F/67/33 and 34 were probably the two candian cars and of which Jim Keller now has one, which one unsure.

C12F/67/35 poped up on the market and was actioned off from the origonal owner here in the US and is at Crossle for in Ireland for update work with Arnie, new owner unknown. This car is still listed on www.race-cars.com

C12F/67/36 was the last car Bruce Klussman raced and is the ALFA powered car and is in NY with Ed Mangone

C12F/67/37 is unknown but I am putting my money on that this is the car Rick Pinch in CA owns. Rick Pinch's car is designated 3X as Arnie could not determine the chassis #

C14F/68/38 is my fathers car and was the first 14F

C15F/68/39 is the 15f Roger raced for John Crossle and is owned by Tim Osborne

C15F/68/40 was the Stanton car and Tim owns that as well

C14F/69/41 is the second 14F and is owned by Jim Mederer and hangs on his living room wall in CA

c15F/69/42 was the last 15f and is the car that was raced in europe and is in Germany

C14F/?/42 is the Gowdy car and is a repeat of the 42 number. This was the works car and is subsantially different with a MK 200 gear box and different half shafts. This car was owned by a couple of people over here the last being Patrick Donnelly in Wisconsin but this car has returned to England as well.

My bet is the Australian car was either the 11F or more likely was one of the two canadian cars
33 or 34

The 8/10F car is here in the states but is MIA right at the moment.

The first 6F which Bruce Klussman imported is MIA as well.

Chris just out of curosity do you have the other 15F??????

Ham Donaldson
C14F/68/38

[David Irwin]

I recently purchased the Crossle 6F that was brought to the US by Bruce Klussmann.

The Crossle has only had 3 previous owners. Klussmann bought it directly from Crossle and became a Crossle importer. Klussmann sold the car to Gerald N. Knezic around 1967, then Benny "Don" McCoin bought the car in 1969, I have the canceled checks, I bought the car from Don last month. The car has it's original stamped aluminum chassis tag that says C8/F65/22. Original tail shifter Hewland is still with it and is mostly complete. The chassis tho, has been heavily modified over the years, NSU air cooled engine, Formula Ford, Zink bodywork, full surround roll cage, ect.... so is going to need a bit of work. I have the original nose section, although it will need a lot of work as well, it's been cut up. I don't have an engine cover or side panels, I have sent an email to Arnie Black at Crossle several weeks ago and as of yet have heard nothing. I would love to see pics from other 6F owners, plus any knowledge of any bodymolds would be greatly appreciated. You can email me direct at: irwin_eng(at)hotmail.com

Thanks.
David Irwin
Evergreen, CO

[allenbrown]

6F or 8F? The 6F was a 1964/65 Formula 3 car and the fourth one went to Klussman. But the chassis number you've quoted starts C8, not C6. The 8F was the mighty (one-off) Shelby-powered monocoque car which was wrecked and rebuilt as the 10F.

You did mean C6F/65/22 presumably?

Great car to find!

[David Irwin]

Allen,

Looking over this thread, I see what you mean about the chassis number. That being said, the aluminum plate, hand stamped by someone says:

CROSSL'E
C8/F65/22
MADE IN
GT. BRITAIN

The plate was mounted on the bracket that held the Dzus spring for the aluminum (I suspect) side panels. The plate looks very vintage to me. The car is a small formula car. I received lots of documentation with the car, even a photocopy of a newspaper picture showing Klussmann in the car. It looks like the car I have to me.

I can't explain the chassis number, what it is, is what it is.

David Irwin
Evergreen, CO

[Alan Drysdale]

Great to see that David has acquired this car as I spoke to Don McCoin a few months back when he first advertised it. At the time I'd just commenced a piece of research to find how many of the 6Fs still exist as I have a particular interest in the ex McCardle and ex Davidson cars which I worked on in 1967 and 1970 respectively. Seven of the models were built in 1964/65 and the history to date for each is detailed below. Strangely only the only cars, I have not yet been able to determine their current/final resting place - yes you've guessed it the ex McCardle and ex Davidson cars. I have included the first owners in front of the relevant chassis numbers.
I've also been in regular dialogue with David over the past few weeks and have hopefully solved the 'C8 mystery'.
Roger Corry - C6/F64/14 - 1172 cc s/v Ford engine. Car badly damaged in Roger’s accident at Kirkistown in 1964, not rebuilt.
Jack Davidson - C6/F64/15 – 1172cc s/v Ford for 1964/65, then 1.5L Pushrod Ford 1966 in F’libre), Brian Cullen (1.5L Pushrod Ford 1967 in F’Libre), David Boal (1.6L F’ford 1969 - not known if car raced in 1968 or if there was another owner between Brian Cullen and David Boal. Brian does not remember who he sold car to), Jim McCleery (1.6L F’ford 1970 – car updated with 16F Bodywork and other 16F chassis modifications by Jim McCleery/Alan Drysdale), Roy Courtney (1.8?? Ford 1971 – raced in clubmans class), Maurice Stirling 1.6L <webered F’ford engine> 1972 in clubmans class).

History after Stirling currently being researched but other possible owners include Sean Harten, Martin Boyle and Alan Grundy who may have campaigned car in Hillclimbs and Sprints. Some indications that car may have gone to England in late 70’s/early 80s. Fate/current whereabouts of car unknown.
Bob Allen - C6/F64/16 - 997 Ford for F3, not a screamer!. Car not raced by Bob Allen and sold later in 1964 to Joe McCardle who campaigned it through to end 1966 season. Car sold to Ken Fildes early 1967. Ken never raced car and is now trying to remember who he sold it to. Joe McCardle believes car went to England. Fate/current whereabouts of car unknown.


Jim Sergeant - C6/F65/21 - (1172 s/v Ford). Car slightly damaged in Jim’s fatal accident at Kirkistown on 24th May 1965. Car in storage and unused in 1966/67. Car acquired by Tony Quinn and raced by his father, Barney, in Irish F’Ford races in 1968/69. History of car after this is currently being researched, but car was acquired a couple of years ago by Paul McMorran. Car may have been used in Hillclimbs and Sprints. When found car had been fitted with a 16F top body and non Crossle side panels. Car awaiting restoration.


Bruce Klussmann - C6/F65/22 - 1.1 Ford for USA FC. First Crossle to be exported to America. Car campaigned by Bruce 1965/66, then sold it to Gerald N Knezic. Knezic fitted car with NSU Aircooled engine. Car acquired by Benny ‘Don’ McCoin in 1969 and raced byDon initiallywith NSU power before he converted it to F’ford specification. Car dismantled by Don some years back with objective of converting car back to original specification. This project was not completed due to ill health and then death of Don’s engineer. Car advertised in July 2010 and has now been acquired by David Irwin who plans to undertake restoration.
John Dickson - C6/F65/23 - 1.5L or 1098cc Ford.Not sure if this car was ever raced by John. It was subsequently purchased by Roger Corry to replace C6/F64/14, but not raced by Roger either as he decided to purchase a Lotus Elan instead. Car was acquired by Ron Pringle from Eastbourne in 1966 and raced by Ron and Gerry Corbett in F3, F’Libre and Hillclimbs events in England in 1966/67. Ron and Gerry understood the car was fitted with a 1.0L engine when purchased, but a subsequent engine rebuild revealed it was a 1098cc motor. Car was dismantled and finally cut up c1968/1969 Ron and Gerry formed Pringett Mistrale to manufacture Formula Fords in 1969/70.
Stan Ryan - C6/F65/24 - 1.6 Lotus Ford T/C. Car badly damaged in Stan’s fatal accident at Kirkistown on 21st August 1965, not rebuilt.

On 2nd December 2009 I visited Crossles and checked original chassis number records. All 6F models built in 1965 were originally allocated C8/F65 as the first 7S sports car had been built.The ‘8’ has subsequently been stroked out and ‘6’ pencilled in when it was obviously decided to count the four cars built in 1965 as the continuation of the ‘6’ range. I believe this is the reason why the chassis plate on the ‘Klussmann car’ is prefixed C8. The chassis plate probably fitted for export and it may be the only 6F to have been plated in the period. I don‘t recall any chassis plates on the two cars (C6/F64/15 and C6/F64/16) that I worked on.