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9 Feb 2009, 17:15 (Ref:2391816) | #1 | ||
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US Tic-Tac Signals
At the recent, excellent training session at Oulton Park, Andy Holley made reference to the many signals used by US marshals (aka Corner Workers, Turn Marshals) almost like the tic-tac used by bookies at nag racing.
For your amusement check out these, in particular the signs for Brown, and Yellow. http://www.michiganturnmarshals.org/...andSignals.htm (For the sake of good order may I point out to new marshals that you use these in Birmingham, Alabama, not Birmingham, England. ) |
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9 Feb 2009, 18:30 (Ref:2391864) | #2 | ||
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you need a degree to understand all that lot!
i like the way yellow and leaking are the same action...i guess regs like that are a result of (compared to the uk at least) far less people on post due to the intervention teams al ot of circuits use? |
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9 Feb 2009, 21:23 (Ref:2391967) | #3 | ||
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Having experienced some of these for the first time last year, they can take some learning.
Admittedly I didn't get to (or try to) use all of them, but in a similar way to some UK circuits there was the need to get the message from the post chief (on landline comms up a tower overlooking the corner) to the flaggers some distance away at the flag point, or on the opposite side of the track, or even the next post up. Using face to face flagging technique meant that the yellow flagger with their back to traffic could watch the track and watch the post chief, while the blue flagger looked at the traffic head-on. I can't remember that the signals we used were the same as the ones shown in the Michigan diagram, especially double yellow (which we used a lot for full course yellows that weekend), which was signalled as both arms straight out (as our rescue unit signal). It also helped when flagging from the point prior to the corner, which was blind, if something had happened the post chief could signal what level of flag was required (flat, waved or double) or if a change of surface flag was needed. One useful thing that was signalled from post to post was pointing by the last car, so you knew you were clear to move. 'Checking' was another one used a lot (again, different to the diagram, was a palm held flat out and waved in a so-so or 50/50 type gesture). When you can't see the whole circuit and you don't have comms, the checking signal meant be ready, something's happened, and was usually followed by a double yellow. Fortunately, the corner packs with the instructions and notes for the day had a reminder of the signals being used, so it was ok, but it will take a bit of refreshing next time |
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9 Feb 2009, 22:02 (Ref:2391991) | #4 | ||
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Them American signals are 'awesome'.
Love the 'leaking' |
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10 Feb 2009, 00:04 (Ref:2392041) | #5 | ||
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Although disappointed with leaking gas. I think that could have been a lot more imaginative!
I tried doing one of the numbers once to a marshal who I knew was familiar with the signals. Unfortunately I got terminally lost half way through and ended up shouting. Was a waste of time because by then he was laughing so much he couldn't report it anyway. |
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10 Feb 2009, 00:13 (Ref:2392048) | #6 | |
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The only thing that springs to mind there is "it's fun to stay at the Wrecker, Ambulance, Fire, Ambulance" followed by two verses of Dambusters for 'Flat tow' and 'Tiltbed'
:-o |
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10 Feb 2009, 09:47 (Ref:2392211) | #7 | ||
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An excellent example of how to make a simple job complicated!
I prefer the Aussie system: 'What's that Skippy, you want to go for a leak?' |
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10 Feb 2009, 13:07 (Ref:2392329) | #8 | ||
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I have got a few hand signals of my own that I use tee hee
Bladders.................. |
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10 Feb 2009, 13:38 (Ref:2392343) | #9 | |||
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10 Feb 2009, 14:10 (Ref:2392424) | #10 | ||
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some of them could be useful like what kind of truck you need to get the car out of the kitty litter
agree we all use hand signals but not as listed there |
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10 Feb 2009, 14:26 (Ref:2392433) | #11 | ||
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I have news for you -- they probably don't use these in Birmingham, Alabama. They'll use a variant but not the identical signals. There's a LOT of regional differences in hand signals. I was trained in the Midwest so the Michigan signals are familiar to me, but when I moved to the West Coast I found some of my signals weren't familiar to others. One that isn't on the MTM list is "halfway", which in the Midwest is drawing your flat hand horizontally across your midsection, but in the West is holding your arms crossed at the wrist about shoulder height. Now I'm "bilingual", so at station meetings at the start of each day I often outline the signals I'm likely to use in the heat of the moment which aren't the "standard" for the area.
Also, leaking and spraying have different signals, and neither are quite like the picture! Two signals my worker friends and I use a lot are missing from this list. One I picked up from the workers in Houston, Texas (means bull***t), and the other is used when you have four lonely cars wandering about for an interminable practice session, and means "Get me out of here NOW." keke PS I've actually used these hand signals at Brands Hatch, when I was flagging and Racegypsy was observer, and that was pretty much it for the corner crew. The turn set-up put us 30 feet apart, so they sure were handy. Last edited by racerkeke; 10 Feb 2009 at 14:36. |
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10 Feb 2009, 14:35 (Ref:2392440) | #12 | ||
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Over enthusiatic use of the "Green " signal could get you into BIG trouble !
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10 Feb 2009, 23:42 (Ref:2394215) | #13 | |||
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Bill Bryson: It is no longer permitted to be stupid and slow. You must choose one or the other. |
11 Feb 2009, 04:10 (Ref:2394290) | #14 | ||
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I was gobsmacked to discover that you didn't use handsignals back when I first worked a UK race (many) years ago but discovered quickly that, because you had many more posts and workers than we did, it wasn't quite as necessary. The UK also doesn't communicate with Race Control in the same way as we do in North America so there hasn't been quite the demand for using signals so you can relay to RC what is happening 200 yards away from you.
It takes a bit of practice to understand some of the signals but many are almost intuitive to us because we use them elsewhere as well. The signal for "safe" is the same as a baseball umpire uses to say a player reached base before they were tagged by the other team. Pretending you are steering a car means "Driver". "Fire" and "Ambulance Now" are also hard to mess up and knowing them can speed up a call for the Rescue Crew. We have lots of fun with the signals too. We can signal that a driver is a turkey, or that we are bored, or that there's a really nice looking guy (or gal) in the grandstands without having spectators know what we are saying. Of course, when spectators tell us that they can read our hand signals, it becomes time to change them. |
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I'm not tailgating, I'm keeping up with the pace car. |
11 Feb 2009, 23:19 (Ref:2395751) | #15 | ||
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Completely without training in such matters I once communicated to my observer on the other side of the track that car 39 was peeing fuel on the track. He even managed to stop laughing long enough to report it.
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19 Feb 2009, 11:04 (Ref:2400160) | #16 | ||
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Heck, what another load of weirdness from the USA. Is it really all that necessary? Still if it does come over here and is brought into practice at UK circuits then before long you probably with be able to get a NVQ Level 3 in it, because that's how daft we can get
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19 Feb 2009, 15:06 (Ref:2400261) | #17 | |||
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We North American flaggies think some of your procedures and standards are weird. And that's not even counting the pork pie theory. |
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I'm not tailgating, I'm keeping up with the pace car. |
19 Feb 2009, 16:05 (Ref:2400293) | #18 | |||
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I worked out a few - 'under 5 minutes to go' is obvious when you know! Do many of our American friends know what a pork pie is though [And would they eat it if they did?] I once almost fell off my chair laughing in a local pub while entertaining American customers to lunch - on their third straight day of having steak and kidney pie and chips, they asked about the 'kidney' - not realising that it was REAL kidney and therefore had been used by the animal for passing the p**s for months/years - and refusing to eat anymore. |
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19 Feb 2009, 16:52 (Ref:2400306) | #19 | |||
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Love the kidney story. I really dislike kidneys, but it's not because of what they are but because I can't stand the texture of them. Weird, I know. I've designed a good hand signal for you on pork pies. I'll pass it on at Sebring or Long Beach, or wherever I see you next. |
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I'm not tailgating, I'm keeping up with the pace car. |
20 Feb 2009, 20:23 (Ref:2401027) | #20 | ||
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Didn't mean to offend the USA in that comment regarding those signals, its just us Brits don't really like to over complicate things. And for those like me that are originally from Yorkshire, well we like to talk and we like what we say. So I think we would be better off shouting it and then it couldn't possibly be miss understood.
As for the Pork Pie thing well it is one of life's mysteries both on the circuit and on your plate. |
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20 Feb 2009, 21:08 (Ref:2401051) | #21 | |||
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keke |
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21 Feb 2009, 00:08 (Ref:2401137) | #22 | |||
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21 Feb 2009, 22:45 (Ref:2401554) | #23 | |||
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I'm not tailgating, I'm keeping up with the pace car. |
21 Feb 2009, 22:51 (Ref:2401557) | #24 | |||
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I find now I am bilingual. My American is nearly as good as my English (speech that is - with hand signals my American is far better ) But note, most Americans do not understand the words "Pork Pie" if they are in the same sentence |
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21 Feb 2009, 23:02 (Ref:2401565) | #25 | |||
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Gypsy, you should know better than to say something like that when I am likely to read it and interpret it literally! Most just can't wrap their heads around "pork pie" as a single entity. |
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I'm not tailgating, I'm keeping up with the pace car. |
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