Love 'em or loathe 'em

bacon sandwich · 30 Jun 2003, 01:15 (Ref:646671)

Having read a few posts - there's obviously the case with Michael Schumacher that you either think he's the greatest or basically can't stand him.
Are there or has there been any other drivers that there have been such strong feelings about and why ? (It doesn't have to just be F1).
Who drives you so mad that you want to sound off about or who sits on that pedestal just in front of the pearly gates (not literally obviously!)

DNQ · 30 Jun 2003, 01:21 (Ref:646677)

Ayrton Senna evoked similar Love or Hate opinions, of course.

Lee Janotta · 30 Jun 2003, 01:28 (Ref:646680)

Aryton Senna, Alain Prost, James Hunt, Jacques Villeneuve, Didier Pironi, Nelson Piquet... Just the ones I can think of off the top of my head for F1.

There's also Colin McRae, AJ Foyt, Michael Andretti, Paul Tracy, and half the guys who've been in NASCAR at some point (fenders always make for rivalries, and there've been ferocious ones long before Kevin Harvick, Jeff Gordon or Tony Stewart). Again, just off the top of my head.

Personally, I'd be lying to say I don't recognize a lot of talent in Michael Schumacher. He's far from perfect on track, but definitly in the upper escelon of all drivers. But I think he has a lot of personal flaws, and has a long pattern of questionable practices both on and off track. And I think these flaws are significant enough to prevent him from truly deserving the title of "Champion".

The guys who really drive me nuts are miserably boring drivers (Ralf) or the utterly worthless who get where they are just by virtue of having money. And yeah, that last one is jealously. What's wrong with that?

Jay · 30 Jun 2003, 01:48 (Ref:646688)

meh, I've become fairly nuetral on him.

Bibendum · 30 Jun 2003, 02:09 (Ref:646703)

Yeah, I just posted something to the effect that I can't understand how much hatred DC attracts or, even, the degree to which some people hate MS. I have my favourites and those I don't care for, but the discussions here sometimes appear to me more like slanging matches (with the odd bit of libel thrown in...) than serious analytic appraisals by dedicated fans.

I agree that there are drivers who don't excite me, and some that I find interesting and for whom I hope for success; but at the same time, I recognize that even the least successful driver in the formula is doing something pretty damned remarkable, something that takes a degree of skill and courage and composure that most of us don't have to show, ever, in our daily work. So I tend to try, at least, for a more measured tone on in my judgements of drivers.

Perhaps I've merely misunderstood the state of being a fan -- a word which, after all, descends from 'fanatic.' A fanatic is not someone with whom it's possible to have a good conversation, and that's what I'm here for. Perhaps I need an enthusiast's site! But then, hell, there're lots of people here (though far too few women, as far as I can tell) who know a lot about Formula One, share their historical and technical and geographical and personal knowledge, and make points that haven't occurred to me; so I keep coming, though I post less now than I used to.

best,
Bibendum

**Aysedasi** · 30 Jun 2003, 07:03 (Ref:646799)

Its a strange thing. For me, Senna was F1 and my interest in Grand Prix pretty well died with him. The era of Senna, Prost, Mansell and Piquet was replaced with Hakkinen, Schumacher, Hill and Villeneuve - just not as exciting really. I'm honest enough to admit that Schumacher is a brilliant driver, but I'd eat glass before accepting that he's better than Senna. Thgere simply isn't any excitement there, but perhaps thats as much to do with how sterile F1 has become over the last 8-9 years.

BootsOntheSide · 30 Jun 2003, 11:27 (Ref:647062)

I have huge respect for Schumacher's racing ability, although i rate him only about level with prsot and behind Senna, but I dislike him and some f his racing 'ethics' intensely. Winning is not as important as racing fairly in my view.

Senna is probably the closest in term so f evoking such strong hatreds, Prost gets some as well but mainly from Senna fans.

**Adam43** · 1 Jul 2003, 17:26 (Ref:648643)

It's an indication that Formula 1 has become more like football, people support their driver/team rather than enjoy the sport in general. This is a shame IMO for both sports.

F1 fans are being replaced by Schumacher fans or Montoya fans (etc...).

I have my favourites who I support, but they are normally chosen because they make the sport look good and are like how I like the sport to be.

F1 first (actually scrub that), Motorsport first, competitors second. Although, of course, it is the drivers/teams that make the sport and the sport is a combination of all of them together - which is what makes it so great. No single team/driver is bigger than the sport though.

Knowlesy · 1 Jul 2003, 20:27 (Ref:648851)

Well I am a big Ferrari fan, but the good of the sport has to come first. It is nice to see Schuey being pushed to the limit or into mistakes (4 in 9 races!) and the championship is tight.
I hated it when people said I was an idiot for watching F1 last year. Now they're idiots!

racefanatic · 1 Jul 2003, 21:00 (Ref:648895)

This is a little different I guess but I've talked to way too many people who feel that way about CART or the IRL. They absolutely love one and hate the other with a passion. (I follow both!) In F1, personally, I loved Senna enough to stop watching F1 after the Imola race until the beginning of this season. This season it's because I'm a da Matta fan. Maybe Adam is right, people are too attached to specific teams and/or drivers and no one watches it to enjoy F1. I think it's probably because lots of fans would be bored with the series at this point if they didn't have someone to cheer for.

**Adam43** · 1 Jul 2003, 21:49 (Ref:648955)

Quote:

Originally posted by racefanatic
I think it's probably because lots of fans would be bored with the series at this point if they didn't have someone to cheer for.

I reckon there is something in this. The sport deserts them so the only pleasure is to cheer for the one they support.

In a certain way it is the price of popularity. It is the people in the sport that make it, but IMHO you lose out if you just watch out for your favourite.

To expand my previous theory: The whole is greater than the sum of its parts (although some parts are more important than others).

For instance (and without going too far back). Senna has contributed a lot to F1 and the way it is. Prost has also done the same. Prost is a great driver and makes me smile.

Senna is a great driver and makes me smile.

But say "Senna and Prost" and that makes me smile more than twice as much as an individual "Prost" or "Senna" just said on its own

.

Now factor in everyone else and the smile gets even bigger.

Of course you can just follow one part if you wish.

GP Racer · 1 Jul 2003, 22:43 (Ref:649036)

Right now, its got to be JV. His arrogant, smug mouth has dug him a hole that he will never get out of. If your going to talk it up, you better be able to back it up, and he certainly can't. Say goodnight JV, the party's over!

Ahhh, I do feel better!

racefanatic · 2 Jul 2003, 00:36 (Ref:649107)

Thank you Adam, that definately made me smile!

garagegirl · 2 Jul 2003, 11:35 (Ref:649480)

i think no matter what there's going to be drivers you either like or you don't.

thing with micheal, i think he's the sort of person you love to hate if you get what i mean. i can honestly say i am not a schuey fan, but he has made some great achievements, and i think my dislike for him comes from, why can't the driver i support do that well?

Dani Filth · 2 Jul 2003, 11:58 (Ref:649500)

lol ... but with years off watching F1 everybody should start enjoying the hole package ..i have to say at first in 96 i was more or less only with Ferrari and Schumacher . but now i enjoy F1 .. even if Ferrari does not win(it would be better if does win

)

**Aysedasi** · 2 Jul 2003, 12:43 (Ref:649578)

I guess there's nowt so strange as folk.

When Senna was still with us and racing Prost, I used to dislike the Frenchman with a vengeance. I used to literally cheer when he made the (very occasional) mistake or his car (very occasionally) gave up on him. But since he retired and Senna's death, I've come to respect The Professor for what he achieved. Still think Senna was better though.....

The sad thing now is that I can't help smiling (alright, laughing out loud), when TGF has a problem. Don't really know why - I guess I associate him somehow with Senna's role as was - a role I can't accept being undertaken by anyone else.

Nothing if not honest.....

429CJ · 2 Jul 2003, 17:25 (Ref:649889)

Love'em:
Juan-Pablo Montoya
Michel Jourdain, Jr.
Kurt Busch

Loathe'em:
Michael Schumacher
Paul Tracy
Jeff Gordon

Mattracer · 3 Jul 2003, 08:23 (Ref:650506)

Drivers that divide the fans:

Senna, JPM, Ralf/Michael Schumacher, Mansell and Jacques Villeneuve

Mr V · 4 Jul 2003, 01:19 (Ref:651558)

Quote:

Originally posted by AdamAshmore
It's an indication that Formula 1 has become more like football, people support their driver/team rather than enjoy the sport in general. This is a shame IMO for both sports.

F1 fans are being replaced by Schumacher fans or Montoya fans (etc...).

I'm a fan of F1, but what makes it exciting is the rivalry between my favourite driver (JPM) and the other drivers. If i didn't mind who won then i might aswell turn on the tv for the last lap and jump up and down with glee at whoever went over the line first.

PaulSands · 4 Jul 2003, 06:49 (Ref:651693)

without fervent rabid support any sport would be a very dull thing...imagine Monza without the Tifosi

krt917 · 4 Jul 2003, 09:48 (Ref:651821)

I agree with Bibendum that 'hate' and 'loathe' are too strong, but I think it's natural for people to have their favourites and their 'least favourites'.

For me, I wasn't a great fan of Senna's. Partly it was because I suppored Nige, but also it was because of his driving ethics - which were abominable. He obviously had tremendous talents and is definitely a great, but - like Schuey - had flaws. Since he died I've also groaned at the number of times he had been put on a pedastol. I remember the period as being a fantastic time with three of the greatest drivers ever - Senna, Prost and Mansell, battling it out season after season. Supporting cast wasn't bad either - with Gerhard, Jean and a young Schuey. A great era, NOT just due to Ayrton.

The other guy I couldn't stand was Piquet. He said some really stupid things. I think one year he questioned Senna's sexuality and called Nige's wife ugly. I'm sure some here would say that they wished there were 'characters' like that now, but I don't. I think it's unacceptable. Although it's not his fault, I also resent Piquet having three world championships, particularly the last one ('87) when he won through consistancy rather than winning races, which has always been one of my biggest problems with a points-scoring system (guess what I think of the new one!).

As for 2003, the man who annoys me the most is James Allen!! Except for last weekend, when Ross Brawn probably took the biscuit (or should that be Mickey! Oh no, Montoya did that!).

krt917 · 4 Jul 2003, 09:50 (Ref:651822)

Quote:

Originally posted by PaulSands
without fervent rabid support any sport would be a very dull thing...imagine Monza without the Tifosi

Yes, imagine. Then you might get some real fans staying after the Ferraris drop out (not that they do that much now)!

Liz · 4 Jul 2003, 10:57 (Ref:651897)

The last good year of F1 was 1993 when Senna and Prost battled on the track and there were a lot of other people to watch as well ... I was a devoted Prost fan (still am) and thus had no use for Senna, whose driving was frequently dangerous and who, as Prost often pointed out, was sometimes actually delusional. I understand nil nisi bonum but really...!

I have never liked TGF, from the day he started racing and had Roberto Moreno kicked out of Benetton to take over his seat and then set about ruining Johnny Herbet's career as well. Even Max Mosley says he's a nitwit ... and one of my American friends told me that after the USGP one year he wanted to drive in the Richard Petty Driving Experience and he waited in line with everyone else and nobody knew who he was. (He didn't get to drive.) Not exactly a household face, then, is he?

Mattracer · 4 Jul 2003, 11:06 (Ref:651904)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Liz
[B]The last good year of F1 was 1993

Agree! Wonderful times even with TC and other tech.

Senna, whose driving was frequently dangerous and who, as Prost often pointed out, was sometimes actually delusional. I understand nil nisi bonum but really...!

I don't. Pardon my ignorance.

PaulSands · 4 Jul 2003, 11:13 (Ref:651910)

1999 was alright...at least on the highlights video anyway

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