Rank the Teams in order of Speed

TeddyG · 13 Mar 2003, 01:34 (Ref:534570)

I know it was hard to determine the relative speed of the cars after Melbourne's wacky race but I think it should be fun to have a crack at it:

1) Ferrari F2002* 2003 car not out ( by a hair)
2) McLaren * 2003 car not out
3) This is where it gets tricky, I still think Williams has a slight edge over the others.
4) BAR, new engine may have them overhaul Williams if reliable.
5) Close call between Toyota and Renault. Too close to call and very close to BAR, which is too close for my liking

Anyway I'll go out on a limb and say Renault then
6)Toyota = strong engine and chassis could surprise me.
7) Is it Jaguar or Sauber? again very close, I'm going to go with Sauber who may lose out to
8)Jaguar's development over the year
9)Jordan, well what can I say no money = unlikely speed that could be unearthed from the chassis will likely not be.
10)Minardi, well they're not going anywhere are they.

J.McClane · 13 Mar 2003, 01:49 (Ref:534600)

Id put the fastest one first and then the slowest last and fill in the bit in between as best i could.

Wrex · 13 Mar 2003, 01:53 (Ref:534606)

1. Ferrari
2. Williams (but not for long)
3. McLaren
4. Renault
5. Sauber
6. BAR
7. Toyota
8. Jaguar
9. Jordan
10.Minardi

and only a whisker between Renault and Jaguar, this is where the season battle is.

TeddyG · 13 Mar 2003, 02:06 (Ref:534619)

true, I think you give too much credit to Sauber though, they picked a very light fuel strategy and it worked out because of the weather otherwise I don't think they're faster than Renault or BAR or even Toyota. The more I think about it Toyota really could be the dark horse if Da matta gets it together. Renault seem to suffer from horsepower so they either have a very good chassis or I'm wrong.

neilap · 13 Mar 2003, 02:15 (Ref:534635)

I would put BAR 5th, Toyota 6th, and then Sauber! I am still not sure about BAR. When the had the better motor that Honda failed to make reliable enough for the race they seemed faster than Renault. With the testing motor I think it puts them just behind.

TeddyG · 13 Mar 2003, 02:20 (Ref:534644)

Apparently Renault we're running really light at the beginning of the race, which of course as it turned out was the perfect strategy. BAR qualified ahead of them with much more fuel so I tend to think the BAR is the quicker of the two. We'll have to wait for Sepang or the next dry race to find out I guess.

Valve Bounce · 13 Mar 2003, 02:24 (Ref:534652)

Could we please put a handle to all this by also giving the top speed of each car through the speed trap.
To some this may be purely academic, but it is also quite interesting to me.
Maybe we should change the title of this thread from "speed" to "pace" or even "lap times", as the latter takes into consideration gearing, torque, engine rev limit, aero settings, chassis development, (and anything else Jukes might think of ), and ultimately the potential of the team to win races.

TeddyG · 13 Mar 2003, 02:33 (Ref:534663)

Fine by me: call it "pace", "relative speed", "rank the best cars" "best potential lap times" " best overall package" "best aerodynamic/engine package" whatever. Any input is obviously welcome Valve.

avsfan733 · 13 Mar 2003, 02:37 (Ref:534668)

I htink the Toyota will really surprise

TeddyG · 13 Mar 2003, 02:44 (Ref:534671)

[IMG]speedtrapmel2003[/IMG]

Valve Bounce · 13 Mar 2003, 03:00 (Ref:534682)

Hey!! :confused: I am asking you guys for the speed through the traps just so we can compare the cars' potential to win races. I don't know the speed throught he traps. When I first saw this thread, that's what I thought Teddy was posting - the speed through the traps.

Wrex · 13 Mar 2003, 03:28 (Ref:534695)

Try formula1.com valve

neilap · 13 Mar 2003, 04:33 (Ref:534734)

From the race the trap speeds were as follows...

MS 318.4 KR 316.4 DC 314.8 RS 314.4 FA 313.5 MW 313.4 JB 312.6 JV 312.1

I think the speeds from the first qualifying are more significant since there was no chance of drafting

RS 314.4 KR 312.7 JPM 312.5 CDM(yeah that dude in the toyota) 312.4 RB 312.0 JB 312.0 MS 311.4 JosV 311.4

JV only managed a 309.8 with a more powerful motor. That alone shows how little these numbers mean since he proceded to set the 3rd fastest time.

TG you have a point about the Renaults. I forgot about that.

Speedworx · 13 Mar 2003, 12:00 (Ref:534910)

1) McLaren
2) Ferrari
3) Williams
4) BAR
5) Toyota
6) Renault
7) Sauber
8) Jaguar
9) Jordan
10) Minardi

Glen · 13 Mar 2003, 12:35 (Ref:534953)

Keep sayig it and it might come true, TeddyG! It might... but there again it might not - Renault are firmly number four as far as I can see. We'll have to wait a fair while to see any different - Sepang likes the Michelins usually.

BAR will do well to pinch second-best Bridgestone honours from Sauber. They'll beat Toyota and Jaguar most likely, but Sauber and Renault are a good year away from them I'd say.

Jellybabe · 13 Mar 2003, 14:44 (Ref:535094)

Quote:

Originally posted by neilap
RS 314.4 KR 312.7 JPM 312.5 CDM(yeah that dude in the toyota) 312.4 RB 312.0 JB 312.0 MS 311.4 JosV 311.4

JV only managed a 309.8 with a more powerful motor. That alone shows how little these numbers mean since he proceded to set the 3rd fastest time.

Yeah, speed through the trap doesn't mean it's a fast car, it just means it's good in a straight line. They're not drag racing...!

neilap · 13 Mar 2003, 14:57 (Ref:535104)

By the way Babe I like your article. Its become quite the item too. Nice!

Mania · 13 Mar 2003, 16:26 (Ref:535175)

I think the Ferraris are still quicker, followed by Mclaren, Williams, Renault, Toyota and BAR Honda. I think Toyota has a better engine than Honda and as soon as Da Matta and Panis get settled in - they should do very well in the championship. Sauber is probably 7th quickest, followed by the Jaguars and then the painfully slow Jordans.

BootsOntheSide · 13 Mar 2003, 16:41 (Ref:535184)

1 Ferrari (debatable, but they did sweep the front row)
2 McLaren
3 Williams
4 BAR
5 Renault (will be awesome at Monaco)
6 Toyota
7 Sauber (I think the low fuel was out to decieve us)
8 Jaguar
9 Jordan
10 Minardi

As has been said, 4-8 is extremely close. In Murray Walker parlance, you could throw a blanket over them - reliability, driver skill and strategies will probably make the difference.

Snrub · 13 Mar 2003, 17:45 (Ref:535244)

Too close to call in the middle. It'll depend on the track and how well the team does each weekend to seperate the teams. Throw in the new qualifying format and it's anyone's guess. I don't want to see the guys at the front, forget them. TV coverage should watch the middle!

**Adam43** · 13 Mar 2003, 19:30 (Ref:535331)

Ferrari (still and by some way IMHO)
McClaren (a good evolution of last years car)
Williams (In some ways lucky to be here, but I think they are)
BAR (either engine, I wonder if they can stay here)
Renault (more power please, but don't comprimise the rest)
Toyota (could be 4th soon)
Sauber (no sure about this)
Jaguar (Cosworth 1)
Jordan (Cosworth 2)
Minardi (Cosworth 3)

It's too early to say and the last race hasn't shown us too much, but hey, there's my guess!

x_dt · 13 Mar 2003, 22:12 (Ref:535477)

1 Ferrari (just)
2 McLaren (though it would seem the gap between the 2002 McLaren and 2002 Ferrari is significantly smaller)
3 Williams
4 Renault

5/6 Toyota/BAR
7 Jaguar
8 Sauber
9 Jordan (recall that in 2000 EJ cancelled his end of season party after they finished 6th in the CC - of course they lost a lot of points that year due to bad luck particularly in Monaco, Australia and Hockenheim. But on the basis of Australia the only team Jordan can be sure of beating this year is Minardi and 2000/1 look good by comparison)
10 Minardi

Mr V · 13 Mar 2003, 22:20 (Ref:535486)

I reserved judgement till the new Ferrari and Mac comes out, one things for certain, JPM in a Williams certainly seems faster than Rafe in a Williams

Jukebox · 14 Mar 2003, 02:14 (Ref:535631)

Mine would be judging from engines, chassis and aero package all together. Like Williams last year, they had the better engine compared to Ferrari but Ferrari had a reliable engine plus superb package of chassis and aero package. So even though you have a very good engine, it won't mean that your car would be quick.

1. Ferrari - fast and reliable engine plus a damn good chassis and aero package.

2. McLaren - I have faith in their new engine and the fact that traditionally superb at coming out with vary good chassis and aero package.

3. Williams - superb engine but dampen by awful chassis and aero package

4 / 5. Renault / Sauber - Renault always try new things on their engines in which this year could prove to be more powerful than the Saubers get for Ferrari. Aero and chassis wise, both produces descent packages.

6. Toyota - Deccent looking chassis and aero package but engine not that fast enough.

7. BAR - Awful chassis and aero package (front suspension build up is like no one wanna adopt anymore!) plus the lips. Engine still not sure whether it's gonna be reliable or not cause they have the speed but tend to fumble so setups are usually lower so that they could have a more reliable engine.

8. Jordan - although not on same par with the Jag's engine, better aero and chassis package.

9. Jaguar - Good engine but awful chassis but an okay aero package.

10. Minardi - Well....everybody knows their problems

Mark Webber · 14 Mar 2003, 08:59 (Ref:535783)

1) Williams
2) Ferrari
3) McLaren
4) Toyota
5) Jaguar
6) Renault
7) Sauber
8) BAR
9) Jordan
10) Minardi

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