Ralf's 10 Second Penalty

[EERO]

If the penalty was assessed for crossing over the white line seperating the pit exit from the Start Finish Straight as has been suggested, I think TGF should have been penalized as well because his wheels crossed the line only slightly less than thos of his brother. It was a bad call by the officials and it cheated us of a decent race. Its more fuel for the conspiracy theorists.

[Tristan]

I see your computor's right next to your TV too, eh??

[Damon]

More fuel for the conspiracy theory is the fact that TGF was way off the pace throughout practice yet managed to find blistering pace when it mattered, this just dosn't happen in real life. Summin ain't right...

[EERO]

Originally posted by Tristan
I see your computor's right next to your TV too, eh??

No, they're on adjacent walls.

[Tristan]

Yeah, but we don't know what tyres/fuel he was running in practice though, do we? Faster inpractice means NOTHING.

[eatapc]

Bad calls by officials happen in every sport, but they're more understandable when the circumstances revolve around bang-bang action and quick decisions under pressure. Only in F1 do officials make questionable calls with the benefit of replays and consultation time. I'm not a consipracy theorist, but this decision is incomprehensible and sickening. Michael, in the press conference, called the penalty for two wheels over the white line "very harsh." A warning or fine would have been more appropriate.

If rules are rules, then Michael deserved the penalty also, as he touched the line. If this rule calls for judgement and discretion on the part of officials, then the penalty was uncalled for.

[RT]

This penalty stands a good chance of claiming the title of "most stupid decision by the officials" in 2001.

Ralf still finished fourth but should have been second or first.

[wodonnell]

I was under the impression that the rule was that the CAR cannot CROSS the line. ie, all four wheels are over the line.

Ralf had only his outside wheels over the line.

Reading though the rules I can't see any mention of it at all though.

[R]

Originally posted by Damon
More fuel for the conspiracy theory is the fact that TGF was way off the pace throughout practice yet managed to find blistering pace when it mattered, this just dosn't happen in real life. Summin ain't right...

If you're refering to yesterday's free practice, he was having trouble in the second morning session, and couldn't participate, that's why he didn't improve his time.

As for stop/go penalty, I think the difference between TGF and Ralf was that TGF touched the white line (without crossing it), while Ralf crossed it. That was the difference as far as I could see anyway.

[enemy-ace]

I imagine the officials called Ralf on the infraction and not Michael was because of the extent with which Ralf was over, ie. earlier and farther. Still it was a horrible call and ruined what could have been a classic three car finish, as i'm sure Ralf and Michael's battle would have allowed Montoya to pull closer.
As long as we are talking about pit-lane infractions, I would like to know if there is anything in the rule book regarding the late dives into the pits that I have noticed a number of drivers performing in an attempt to fool their pursuers as to their race strategies. I can't help but wince whenever i see one car cut back across another when entering the pit-lane. Surely this must be just as dangerous as skimming the white line on exit.

[R]

Maybe so, but if it's not in the rules, then it's not prohibited.

The decision was correct. Sorry for Ralf, but it was his mistake.

[enzo]

Amazing - in past races where JPM has made a mistake, you guys chastise him to no end. In this race Ralfi makes a stupid mistake that costs him 2nd place, and you blame the officials!

[R]

I've noticed that difference too...

[Don K]

Originally posted by enzo
Amazing - in past races where JPM has made a mistake, you guys chastise him to no end. In this race Ralfi makes a stupid mistake that costs him 2nd place, and you blame the officials!

OK, if you say so:

It's all Montoya's fault that Ralf lost his 2nd place.

[Bononi]

Originally posted by R
Maybe so, but if it's not in the rules, then it's not prohibited.

The decision was correct. Sorry for Ralf, but it was his mistake.

Yes. But TGF did the same !!!!

[Liz]

When Speedvision shows this as the "Move of the Race", then we who are branded 'conspiracy theoriests' are not the only ones who noticed that it happened right after TGF began (according to Speedvision) to 'crack under the pressure from Ralf' ... and if it is true that Ferrari trotted down to point out the stewards that the Williams Driver made an error, then I am sure this is just a coincidence and another evidence of good citizenship on the part of the Ferrari team.

And it gives TGF yet another tainted win on the way to pretending to be as good as or better than Alain Prost, who did not cheat his way to the top.

Real Men Race Sports Cars.

[R]

Hmmmm, Prost was no angel.

He may not have cheated, but he certainly had the "establishment" on his side (monsieur Balestre), much the same as TGF today.

[Bononi]

Oh, he was no angel like anyone of us. And yes about Ballestre, but what happened today was too much ! I can only think that FIA is totally controled by Ferrari.

[Tristan]

NOW HERE'S THE INTERESTING BIT: Did anyone see the F3000 race at Barcelona a while back?? Some pleb got stop goed THREE TIMES for doing the same thing. HOWEVER, IN F3000, THE WHOLE CAR MUST CROSS THE LINE!!! Is this not the case in F1?? If so, WHY???

[Bononi]

These rules are very confusing, with many points that can be analised diferently...

[R]

Originally posted by Tristan
HOWEVER, IN F3000, THE WHOLE CAR MUST CROSS THE LINE!!! Is this not the case in F1?? If so, WHY???

Good question. Does anyone here know exactly what the rulebook has to say about this?

[Don K]

Originally posted by Liz
When Speedvision shows this as the "Move of the Race", ...

What exactly did they show as "Move of the Race"?

Was it the Stop-and-Go penalty?
Or was it Ralf's offence?

[Minardi fan]

I saw the F3000 race where that guy kept putting his entire Durango over the line - I thought the rules were that the whole car is not allowed to cross the line.

We have been denied a superb racing spectacle over the closing laps, and in it's place get the most tiresome race of the year.

:confused:

[Bononi]

Oh ! That's the point ! A true good racing is all we want to watch !!

[eatapc]

Everyone is interpreting the rule, but no one has actually posted the rule itself. I can't imagine that the rule is written in such a way as to make it legal to cross the line with two tires (as did Michael), but illegal to put half the car across the line (as did Ralf).

As to the chop across the rumble strip into the pits, I'm undecided as to whether that was good gamesmanship by Michael or childish chickens**t. If it is legal, then perhaps the FIA needs to make a clarification, as there would be nothing to prevent a dangerous attempted pass across the strip at the pit entrance. Of course, Michael was already ahead, but his swerve into the pit lane was unnecessary -- and distracting to Ralf at a point on the track when safety to others should be of utmost concern.

BTW, Michael would have won anyway, but Ralf deserved second, and we all deserved a race not handed on a platter by the stewards to Michael.