Castroneves or Tracy?

Jordi · 26 May 2002, 19:22 (Ref:296846)

Tracy I would say...

Helio should never back out that way, how does he know if the race is already yellow? But of course, Helio couldn't gas it, he was about to run out of fuel...

I think Tracy was passing him before the yellow happened, if not I don't think he would have passed him and left...

Speedworx · 26 May 2002, 19:25 (Ref:296852)

I'd done a poll to find out.

Jay · 26 May 2002, 19:27 (Ref:296856)

Tracy would have won without the caution no doubt, but that's the business.

I'm just glad it's over so we can get back to normal race weekends.

BootsOntheSide · 26 May 2002, 19:47 (Ref:296890)

From the www.indy500.com website- manufacturers of the greatest rugs and carpets on earth:

"Castroneves won the race under caution caused by a crash between Laurent Redon and Buddy Lazier on Lap 198. Before the yellow, Castroneves was under intense pressure from Paul Tracy, who ended up second."

macdaddy · 26 May 2002, 20:47 (Ref:296922)

C'mon everybody. See the replays? Redon tagged the wall before Tracy even started his pass. Helio won this race. How? They rolled the dice and almost lost. If Redon hadn't crashed, that bet wouldn't have paid off. But he did, and it did. That's why Penske's won a dozen.

Observations...
Junquiera had the car. Not the luck. Hornish taps the wall and blames slower traffic when it clearly appeared to be his doing. Gordon pulls away from his fuel hose, and starts a flash fire which blows the lid off of the pitwall fuel tank. Really scary. Kudos for giving him Greg Ray's fuel and pit stall. Bruno's engine blows and the oil takes out Kanaan who was leading handily. Had the yellow come out as soon as the officials saw the oil spray, Kanaan may have won this race. Vasser and Papis suffer mechanicals while on the lead lap. Buhl running a fantastic race until a RR tire problem in the pits. That Scheckter guy seems to have learned a lesson, leading a good portion late in the race. Then he hits the wall. Became deFerran's race to win, but his LR tire went AWOL right after his last pit. All boils down to Helio who is "sucking fumes" and Tracy who is running full-rich. Franchitti passes Helio and does everything he can to hold him up. Maybe he's looking for a job at Ferrari. Almost works as Tracy fights to the end and would have won if not for a yellow on lap 199...

Aussie 05 · 26 May 2002, 20:57 (Ref:296926)

Nothing really much happeneed till about 20 or so lap to go, then the pace really hotted up. Scheckter was doing a good job and my intial reaction was jeezus you idiot but then i thought he was told he was being caught so he tried to up the pace and i spose he crashed while trying his hardest so i guess it kind of lets him off the hook.

I was in 2 minds for the win. I wanted Castroneves to win as hereally shows his emotions when he wins which is great and they way he celebrated this win just brought such a huge smile to my face, the guy is great. Yet on the other hand i wanted to see Tracy win as when he first came into IndyCars he really looked liek he was going to set the sport on fire but for some reason it just didn't happen so i wanted to see him win something major for a change as i think he deserves it.

Who one? I'm not sure. Tracy won it as he crossed the finish line first, Castroneves won it as Tracy passed him under yellow flag conditions, so i don't know.

To take the win away from Helio now would only be a shame i think. The way the race ended was a disappointment. Helio celebrated and loved the win so much, so to take the win away from him would only make me feel so for him. Then to give the win to Tracy would be good, but then it wouldn't as because if they gave it to him he wouldn't scream and shout as the race would have been long since over so it just wouldn't be as good to see in my opinion. I think we can also say that Tracy would have won teh race proporley had it not been for the accident on the last lap as he caught him so good, had a big run on him and the timing seemed to be perfect.

Anyway it was an exciting ending and one added positive point to come from it is that i years time we will be able to look back on the race and say yes i remember the controversial end to the 2002 Indy 500 and thats what matters most to me, seeing memorable races are what counts.

macdaddy · 26 May 2002, 21:00 (Ref:296928)

That's racing.

Glen Hartigan · 26 May 2002, 21:44 (Ref:296959)

Its not a question of when the crash occured but when the caution came out...i think tracy got it buts it is close

Crash Test · 26 May 2002, 22:07 (Ref:296974)

As much as I critisize Our Paul for the amount of carnage he is involved in, I must admit I was barking for him today... sheez it must have been a close thing though!

Mekola · 26 May 2002, 22:34 (Ref:296995)

Quote:

Originally posted by Jay
Tracy would have won without the caution no doubt, but that's the business.

I'm just glad it's over so we can get back to normal race weekends.

I agree with you. Well, at least it was one more addition of the success of "Spiderman"...

Glen Hartigan · 26 May 2002, 22:37 (Ref:296997)

"Right now we’ve got footage that was shown to me that wasn’t clear enough to make a decision," Green continued. "We having timing data that we have calculated that makes the decision questionable as well. I think the video is hard to see and it’s hard to zero in on the yellow light. Clearly Paul was not in front of Helio when the accident occurred but that isn’t the determining factor. We are going to keep looking at some things to see what happened."

Glen Hartigan · 26 May 2002, 22:48 (Ref:297010)

Team Kool Green is still looking at timing all around the track to see if in fact Paul Tracy was in front of Castroneves once the yellow light came out. To make clear, the highlighted spot that ABC showed was a track worker wearing a yellow shirt, not a light.Stay tuned as this very interesting story develops.

Glen Hartigan · 26 May 2002, 22:49 (Ref:297013)

Quoted from champweb....

macdaddy · 26 May 2002, 23:25 (Ref:297036)

"Very interesting story" indeed. But as near as I could tell, Tracy didn't get a nose in front of Castroneves for at least four seconds after Redon's impact. I've watched the replay over and over on videotape, and if the yellow light wasn't on within four seconds...

SevenGrain · 27 May 2002, 00:59 (Ref:297068)

Castroneves is the luckiest man in the world, and as we know it takes a certain degree of luck to win races. But Helio should not have won that race.

Here's my take on this...

The biggest race in the world that pays the winner over one million dollars should not be allowed to finish under yellow. They should either allow the drivers to race back to the line, NASCAR style, or they should red flag the thing and have a green flag finish. We were all robbed of an exciting finish, and Tracy was certainly robbed of Indy racing glory.

Perhaps they need to institute a rule banning crashing with less than ten laps to go. After all, why race all of those miles if you are going to stuff it into the wall at the end? lol.

Team Green's protest won't go anywhere because when the yellow comes out, scoring reverts to the lap prior to the yellow. It doesn't matter what happens on that lap, Helio won fair and square. He dodn't deserve to, but he did. Also, the IRL is not going to give this one to CART, no way.

Also, I disagree with the decision to let Robby Gordon have Greg Ray's fuel tank and pit. It was clearly driver/team error that caused them to blow up their fueltank and subsequentaly, burn up all of the methanol. They shouldnt get any more... It should be "Sorry Robby, when the car is empty, you're done"

And what happened to Sarah Fisher? For all of the 'fastest female' hype and endless Sarah Fisher interviews we've had to endure this month, she spent the entire event going backward. She finished last among cars running at the finish (save for Hornish who spent fourteen laps behind the wall). She'll never ink a ride for the rest of the season that way.

I hope that Helio's image on the Borg Warner Trophy is better for 2002, Did anybody see his 2001 image on there? It's hideous, he looks like a vampire.. The only one worse is Emerson's 1989 win.

Glen Hartigan · 27 May 2002, 02:23 (Ref:297085)

Quote:

Originally posted by SevenGrain
Team Green's protest won't go anywhere because when the yellow comes out, scoring reverts to the lap prior to the yellow. It doesn't matter what happens on that lap, Helio won fair and square. He dodn't deserve to, but he did. Also, the IRL is not going to give this one to CART, no way.

I thought the rules state that its where you are when the yellow is out on the track.

SevenGrain · 27 May 2002, 02:40 (Ref:297090)

That's actually a CART rule, but it came up during the Paul Tracy press conference. The IRL rules are a bit vague when it comes to positioning. It simply states that all drivers must stop racing as soon as the yellow is displayed.

Either way, the Team Green protest will go nowhere...

Glen Hartigan · 27 May 2002, 02:42 (Ref:297091)

just saw rpn2nite...its clear tracy won and the irl rule is when the yellow comes out that is your position.He was robbed!!!!

mac · 27 May 2002, 02:52 (Ref:297095)

There is no way Tony George will uphold a protest from a CART team, particularly when no one really knows what happens.

Personally, I feel that race was Kanaan's. He was the quickest guy out there. If not for the incompetence of the IRL marshalls he would have won. Why the yellow flags did not come out when Bruno blew up, I'll never know. It was clear to everyone in the world (except those that mattered) that Bruno had left a huge trail of garbage on the track. It clearly should have gone yellow, and Kanaan was the poor bloke to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Scheckter impressed, but deep down I had a feeling he couldn't last the 500 miles.

Also, do the IRL have blue flags? Judging by some of the driving of backmarkers today (esp. Al Jr & Redon), you wouldn't think so.

Tracy deserved the win. He would have got Helio. I don't know about the whole yellow flag situation, it was just a shame that we were denied a grandstand finish.

How lucky was Helio? First, some moron in the crowd throws a can on the track to give him more yellow running, and then Redon and Lazier crash. If either of those things didn't happen, Helio doesn't win the race.

djb · 27 May 2002, 03:33 (Ref:297104)

Man, you said it about the idiot and the can! I do not know any of the yellow regulations in the IRL, re when it comes out etc, but one interesting theing that was mentioned was that the "Indy 500 finish cannot be contestable"--one of the ABC announcers said , so perhaps this whole thing is a moot point if that is what the rule is. (damn stupid one if it is true imo)
What can I say, I was really rooting for Tracey, as I too would like to see him get a big win like this, so it was a hard pill to swallow.
Like others have menitoned, racing luck is racing luck, but I agree that finishing under yellow for such a big race is really a drag, and ends up with a win that doesn't hold the same seriousness. That said, in this sort of game, these are the rules, and so you pay your money and take your chances, or roll the mileage game dice and you get what comes your way.

Damn though that was disappointing that Tracey didnt get it!

f1manoz · 27 May 2002, 06:48 (Ref:297176)

Kanaan.

Seriously, if it hadn't been for the oil (why wasn't the yellow shown straight way) Tony had the race in the bag. He was super-fast and confident of victory.

Towards the end, I found myself cheering for Barron. That would have been a fantastic result, and the biggest upset in years.

Castroneves will get the nod by all the evidence, but he was very lucky today.

racer69 · 27 May 2002, 11:39 (Ref:297399)

hmmm, it seemed to me that Kanaan and Scheckter were definatly the class of the field.

Towards the end of the race i was going for Eddie Cheever, he was charging through the field, going faster than all four in front of him, if only he didn't run wide with 11 to go.

Tracy would have got him easily. What a shame, that was going to be a good last lap, oh well, the countdown begins to the 87th Indianapolis 500

paul-collins · 27 May 2002, 12:37 (Ref:297465)

Quote:

Originally posted by djb
[B...but one interesting theing that was mentioned was that the "Indy 500 finish cannot be contestable"--one of the ABC announcers said...[/B]

The quote finished "as I discovered in 1995." To be fair, that was really just sour grapes from Scott Goodyear (the announcer). He was comparing this to his 1995 finish (which Jacques Villeneuve won), where with something like 2 laps to go, on restart, he wound it up in turn four and blew past an inexplicably slow pace car. JV stomped on the binders to not pass the pace car, everyone else had to slow behind him, and Goodyear was penalized. JV didn't have the car to catch Goodyear, so it was pure driver error. Goodyear probably would've been given the trophy had he kept his cool...

(Of course, JV actually drove 505 miles that day, but that's another story)

Anyway, the appeals situation is hardly comparable.

Crash Test · 27 May 2002, 12:39 (Ref:297467)

A couple things-

- How good was Giaffone?? What a drive!

- I love that camera hanging off the side of mikeys car.... loved looking at the crowd and the car next to him

paul-collins · 27 May 2002, 15:03 (Ref:297583)

From an, erm, unbiased report:
"ABC, which covered the race, showed video on ESPN, its sports channel affiliate, that appeared to show the yellow light was not on when Tracy made his pass.

" "By our calculations Paul was ahead by .19 seconds when the yellow came out," an ESPN spokesman said."

http://www.canoe.ca/Slam020527/car1-sun.html

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Castroneves fined!	Down F0rce	IRL Indycar Series	7	19 Oct 2004 13:14
Castroneves wins!	Down F0rce	IRL Indycar Series	6	13 Aug 2003 05:51
Testing Castroneves	macdaddy	Formula One	8	12 Aug 2002 16:27
Castroneves	macdaddy	IRL Indycar Series	1	10 Aug 2002 14:56