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13 Jun 2006, 21:00 (Ref:1633832)
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Rookie
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2
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is there an LMP3?
Hi all,
I have a quick question which I hope one of you will help me with. Im interested in the britcar and V de V championship type sportscars, but what rule book are the cars drawn to? Is there an LMP3? Thanks, Phill. 
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13 Jun 2006, 21:02 (Ref:1633833)
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#2 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,555
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As far as I know, not yet - but it wouldn't surprise me to see one. I'm sure I've read an article about this sorta subject somewhere....?
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13 Jun 2006, 21:35 (Ref:1633852)
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#3 | |
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Rookie
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2
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Hi bob, thanks for posting. Your right there was something about it in racecar eng last year i think. I just dont understand what all the cars in britcar, v de v and all the others are drawn to. strange, and hard to find out.
Phill. 
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13 Jun 2006, 22:01 (Ref:1633864)
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#4 | |
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Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,714
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Do you mean britsports? This series is racing at Brands Hatch this weekend if you didn't know already.
There are some basic regulations here but the technical section is a bit thin: http://www.eerc.co.uk/cms/e107_plugi...ns_Issue_2.pdf I agree, it would be great to see a 'P3' series somewhere on a national level but what would its true worth be to the International LMES/ALMS races? Currently drivers come from other routes, international GT racing or open wheelers. |
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13 Jun 2006, 22:52 (Ref:1633892)
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Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 6,704
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IMSA Lites in the USA
Britsports in the UK VdeV in France Similar series in Italy, Spain, Germany. Racecar Engineering LMP3 article is V15N9 with a rules proposal. Closest thing you get to unified rules are the 2 litre CN 2001 cars but even the only VdeV uses them (and a variant therein), the Spaniards I think use CN 2004 which is quite different on chassis construction. LMP3 is coming - safety is the major reason. The VdeV field proved to be not too far off LMP2 pace at Spa and the BritSports are substantially faster |
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__________________
Chase the horizon
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14 Jun 2006, 03:09 (Ref:1633989)
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#6 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,215
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It is coming...trust me...
Right, ss_collins??? 
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__________________
Finally... One American Open Wheel Series!
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14 Jun 2006, 08:03 (Ref:1634074)
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#7 | |
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Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,714
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Sounds interesting. A pity it appears that the cars and regulations used in series throughout are quite varied so some owners stand to have a car that is either ineligible or uncompetitive in P3.
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14 Jun 2006, 12:12 (Ref:1634250)
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#8 | ||
 Race OfficialVeteran
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,905
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Quote:
Several US and UK manufacturers have formed an association. See bottom of this page: http://www.mulsannescorner.com/newsmarch06.html I think it's the right step to create one set of rules. At the moment there are world wide several "lmp3" type championships each with their own rules. |
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14 Jun 2006, 12:21 (Ref:1634255)
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#9 | ||
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Rookie
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 91
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Wouldn't the Radical's from the Radical RaceCup be something for a LMP3 Class?
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14 Jun 2006, 12:30 (Ref:1634263)
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#10 | |
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Race Official Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,905
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Yes and also cars like the Norma M20, Ligier JS49 and CvO R02.
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14 Jun 2006, 13:20 (Ref:1634305)
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#11 | |
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Racer
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 407
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Closest thing to an LMP3 spec machine would probably be the Radical SR8, from a performance/speed point of view anyway.
Very, very quick, but not quite LMP2 territory. |
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__________________
If in doubt, keep it flat out.
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14 Jun 2006, 13:31 (Ref:1634315)
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#12 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,215
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Juno, Jade, ADR, Chiron and some others build cars that would definitely earn consideration as LMP3s...
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__________________
Finally... One American Open Wheel Series!
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14 Jun 2006, 13:33 (Ref:1634317)
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Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,215
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Quote:
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__________________
Finally... One American Open Wheel Series!
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15 Jun 2006, 13:52 (Ref:1635051)
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#14 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 13,763
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If it does come , I sincerly hope that they do "not" race with LMP1 & LMP2 and GT1 & GT2 . We already have 4 classes and another one would be too much in my opinion . Our grids are full with respect to the LMS and LM , so it wouldnt really work anyway , together .
Why not , run a LMP3 championship alongside a GT3 championship as a support series , or a national series . That might work ? |
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15 Jun 2006, 14:16 (Ref:1635076)
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#15 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 5,147
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Gosh, what a clever idea!
In fact, that is similar to what VdeV is already offering, but might prove to be a bit more, um, formalized. VdeV has proven the concept; now someone has to formalize and export it. |
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__________________
... Since all men live in darkness, who believes something is not a test of whether it is true or false. I have spent years trying to get people to ask simple questions: What is the evidence, and what does it mean? -Bill James
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15 Jun 2006, 14:19 (Ref:1635080)
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#16 | |
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Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,714
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Badger, I think simply universal adoptance of the rules would be beneficial to competitors and constructors. I agree that racing with the P1 and P2 is a bit too much.
Then each country can work out the championship to themselves, but international competitors can compete easily. Although one could probably say what I did above about a lot of the racing series around at the moment! |
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15 Jun 2006, 14:20 (Ref:1635081)
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Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 13,763
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I didnt realise that Paul .
But , does it work ? |
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15 Jun 2006, 14:24 (Ref:1635082)
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#18 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 13,763
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Universal rules are a great idea . Just look at what has happened since the creation of the Le Mans Series . We now have competitors from all over the world that will be able to race against each other without spending a fortune to convert to a series rules for one race .
I remember when John Nielson converted his Panoz LMP1 to ELMS rules "scaffolding pole" . He said that it cost something like 40 grand . Universal rules ..... brilliant !!! |
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15 Jun 2006, 14:37 (Ref:1635094)
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#19 | |||
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Veteran
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 5,147
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Quote:
Judge for thyself! |
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__________________
... Since all men live in darkness, who believes something is not a test of whether it is true or false. I have spent years trying to get people to ask simple questions: What is the evidence, and what does it mean? -Bill James
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15 Jun 2006, 14:44 (Ref:1635103)
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Race Official Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,905
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15 Jun 2006, 14:48 (Ref:1635108)
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#21 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,215
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Different places handle this differently.
V de V has huge fields of cars and is very, very successful...the GT cars and the sportsracers (FIA-CN and FIA-C3 spec) race simultaneously in the same event. BritCar and BritSport race on the same weekends at venues, but they race in separate events....they are running at Brands Hatch this weekend. In Brazil, their big endurance series also pairs GTs, Touring cars and sportsracers together on the track in the same races for a full season, and they also have two special events...the 12 Hours of Taruma, and the Mil Milhas Brasileiras, but the latter will become an FIA-GT event next year, IIRC. The Brazilian series, however has too many classes (6 or so) and it gets somewhat confusing. |
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__________________
Finally... One American Open Wheel Series!
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15 Jun 2006, 14:59 (Ref:1635122)
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#22 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,215
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From my discussions with constructors when we began exploring the ISCMA concept that you read about on Dailysportscar , Mulsanne Mike's site, etc....( in referance to the link posted earlier)
The main hurdle that hinders them from selling many, many more cars than they already do is the plethora of different rules, race formats, and specs to compete. The SCCA sportsracer classes are single seaters....FIA-CN and C3 specs require two seats....just for starters... A universal standard for construction and a migration of the V de V type of race format and rules to other countries or continents would be most beneficial to constructors and would foster growth within the industry, as well as variety for the fans... As an example, three of the seven founding members of ISCMA are closed-top sportsracers...and all seven are or will be beautiful, fast and well-built cars.... Last edited by Tim Northcutt; 15 Jun 2006 at 15:11. |
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__________________
Finally... One American Open Wheel Series!
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15 Jun 2006, 16:52 (Ref:1635216)
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#23 | |||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 7,618
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Quote:
FIA & SRO ?? |
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__________________
Apocalypse becomes creation / Gor-Gor shall erase the nation Before you leap into his gizzard / Fall and worship Tyrant lizard Ciao Marco
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15 Jun 2006, 17:53 (Ref:1635294)
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#24 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 5,147
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...to start.
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__________________
... Since all men live in darkness, who believes something is not a test of whether it is true or false. I have spent years trying to get people to ask simple questions: What is the evidence, and what does it mean? -Bill James
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15 Jun 2006, 22:56 (Ref:1635544)
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#25 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 6,704
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Not SRO.
On LMP3 - obviously I'm a party to more info than I can give out - partially from my job and partially as media partner of IMSA Lites... All I'm gonna say is that where there is a will... |
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__________________
Chase the horizon
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