What's happening to motorsport?

[Wendy Wool]

I decided to fire up the Wendymobile and head down to Brands today, its a while since I have been but I was surprised that the BRSCC had less than 60 cars for their Sunday race meeting.

Although the racing was good, how can a club with such a history be running with just a couple of race series in a single meeting?

Hopefully this was just a bad day

[vjay48]

How they justified a six car grid being given 90 minutes of track time,the other members of more viable championship are picking up the shortfall. I notice the organisation running this are people who bought Focus cup etc!

[andy97]

Just lost the Ma5das for 2013 as well, thats something like 120+ members.

[Al Weyman]

Lets hope track owners start sitting up and taking note there just ain't much money out there these days, the price increases are simply unsustainable and the whole thing needs a complete reform.

[flagwaver]

With two clubs having control of just under 60% of the circuits, it must start to get tough for other clubs to run meetings at these venues and make money.

[Paul D]

Can't comment on the BRSCC specifically, as I have no experience of them. But on a more general note, I have to agree with Al - I'm not sure that things are sustainable the way they are. Those of us that race in a series that's well supported end up subsidising the other series' that aren't well supported.

You may well ask how I figure that? Well, take the club I race with: without going into specifics, at a race meeting in which I was entered recently, 'my' race had, I think, 24 starters. There was another series racing that day that had either seven or eight cars out racing. And these are 40 minute races remember, so with down-time between races, you can say that each race has to cover the cost of the circuit for about an hour. My race, with that number of entries, probably did so easily, but the series with seven or eight cars? No way! So therefore, bearing in mind that we all paid the same entry fees, it's safe to assume that the better supported series' are subsidising the poorly supported ones.

I know it sounds a bit harsh to anyone in one of these poorly supported series', but I think that if any given series can't regularly get enough entries to break even, then it needs to be scrapped so that the rest of us aren't paying for it.

I know someone will probably shoot me down in flames for this, and I appreciate that it may not be that practical to implement, but wouldn't it be great if the cost of racing could come down if we all only entered series' that were well supported? What I mean is this: let's just say, for the sake of argument, that it costs a club five grand for each hour of track time, and that figure was simply passed on to the competitors in each race. So, only ten entries? Fine, that's £500 each fellas! But get 30 entries - hey, just £170 each! Wouldn't that really encourage everyone to support the popular series' and ditch the ones that never get much past single figures?

With track time as expensive as it is these days, I, for one, do object to the fact that some of my entry fee from a well supported series goes towards propping up another series that few people bother with. If people really want to run in races with just a handful of cars, then let them pay for it!

I'll get me coat!

[GORDON STREETER]

The BRSCC was at one time the one to be in, but has been going slowly downhill for years unfortunately .

[ss_collins]

BARC and 750MC are much better clubs IMHO these days.

[redshoes]

A variation of this thread comes up at least once a year for more years than I care to remember.

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

Lets hope track owners start sitting up and taking note there just ain't much money out there these days, the price increases are simply unsustainable and the whole thing needs a complete reform.

The track owners don't care how many many cars are entered. They simply rent the circuit to the organising club at a daily rate so they get the same revenue regardless. The only benefit of a well supported meeting to the track owners is the extra revenue from ticket sales, but for any club level event that's pretty minimal.

Originally Posted by Paul D

I know it sounds a bit harsh to anyone in one of these poorly supported series', but I think that if any given series can't regularly get enough entries to break even, then it needs to be scrapped so that the rest of us aren't paying for it.

I know someone will probably shoot me down in flames for this, and I appreciate that it may not be that practical to implement, but wouldn't it be great if the cost of racing could come down if we all only entered series' that were well supported? What I mean is this: let's just say, for the sake of argument, that it costs a club five grand for each hour of track time, and that figure was simply passed on to the competitors in each race. So, only ten entries? Fine, that's £500 each fellas! But get 30 entries - hey, just £170 each! Wouldn't that really encourage everyone to support the popular series' and ditch the ones that never get much past single figures?

That's pretty much the conclusion every time one of these threads is started but somehow either the message never gets across or those in charge are wither unwilling or unable to implement.

[flagwaver]

A lot of championships are now done as "pay races" so they pay the organising club a set amount it is then up to the championship to fill that grid. so Although on the face of it some people feel they are subbing poorly supported grids that is not always the case.

Agreed there are too many championships, but until people put there own interests to one side and work together. Then this will continue.

[Dom]

I got priced out of racing with the BRSCC a few years ago - entry fees, club membership and championship registration/tv fees were getting out of control. Luckily i found far better value for money in the BARC SE to race with. I get the impression the BRSCC have way too many championships that could simply be amalgamated to fill grids better?

[Ian Sowman]

Originally Posted by ss_collins

BARC and 750MC are much better clubs IMHO these days.

BARC struggle more than anyone to put on a good quality race meeting with a decent entry. I've been to several packed BRSCC meetings with busy paddocks this year - this one was obviously an exception.

[Thundersports]

It's been a club in decline since the sadly departed John Nicol.

[Al Weyman]

The track owners don't care how many many cars are entered. They simply rent the circuit to the organising club at a daily rate so they get the same revenue regardless. The only benefit of a well supported meeting to the track owners is the extra revenue from ticket sales, but for any club level event that's pretty minimal.

I dont see that, if entries drop to such a level that no one is buying track time the owners will suffer.

[insight]

Originally Posted by Thundersports

It's been a club in decline since the sadly departed John Nicol.

You are quite right on that one it has not been the same since John. Maybe it is about time for a change at the very top before BRSCC become absorbed by another club. There are some at the top in BRSCC who are only their to further their careers in motorsport and that has been the case for a good number of years.

[kipper]

Originally Posted by Ian Sowman

BARC struggle more than anyone to put on a good quality race meeting with a decent entry. I've been to several packed BRSCC meetings with busy paddocks this year - this one was obviously an exception.

I'd agree with the above. As an aside, by my reckoning, the BRSCC have two series that regularly fail to gain grids in double figures (Sakers and the Junior Fiesta competition referenced in the original post), whilst BARC (who, it must be said organise more competitions) have six.

[yesnomaybe]

heres my pics from the Saturday 4th August, BRSCC event
http://www.flickr.com/photos/coletri...7630999522042/

i think that if you're going to spend a day spectating then its always worth looking at the championship websites and previous results on TSL etc so you have some idea what to expect, and also what stuff not to bother with! For the weekend this thread is about a think the Fun Cup was the main event, but that was finished with on Saturday so left the Sunday a bit thin.

imo every club has at least one championship with very poor entry lists, e.g. less than 10 cars, some of them are new series

someone mentioned an idea where the entry fee is based upon the amount of cars in the race, i think project 8 racing do this (prices based upon filling the grid and the club making no profit) they run Production BMW and Project 8 Racing Saloons under the MSVR umbrella, entry fees are pretty unbeatable imo e.g. £260 for 55 minutes on the Brands GP track, 15 minute qualy, 2x 20 minute races.

someone mentioned 750mc as being a good club, i think it is, they run some great championships like stock hatch and the compact cup, but from what ive seen on their site they seem to charge the same entry fee for every championship, so better subscribed championships are subsidising the poorer ones

i think clubs ought to look at combining races more often, and in some cases combining championships, allowing invitation class cars in etc, it should mean cheaper entry fees for the racers and its better for the spectators if there's more cars in the race, there is for example two MK2 Golf championships, 2 MX5 Championships, two classic alfa championships etc etc

[simes43]

Having raced in both 750 and BRSCC run championships, the
differences are stark. The 750 care for their members and
will listen to reason, the BRSCC show little regard for the
competitor, preferring to dictate from an ivory tower.

Combined grids are the only way of reducing entry fees or the
Championships with low grids pay more for the privilege of
racing on their own.

How Championships with 10 to 15 cars year in year out are
not culled or combined is beyond me.

[chezza]

You have to remember one thing...is what you are seeing a championship or a series. At the moment, although series have to be registered with the MSA there is no rule on the minimum numbers like a championship therefore clubs can start as many series as they are willing to register and pay the registration fee for...!

Have you also tried getting one championship/series to combine with another? The feeling you get when you try to do it, even though the drivers know it makes sense numbers wise, is that they don't want to and would rather run on their own with small numbers. They can be fiercely protective over the identity of their series.

[Al Weyman]

And yet CTCRC/BARC have a meeting at Thruxton this weekend and the BARC did the sensible thing and amalgamated a race as they only had 4 entries from one group so the group all withdrew, I say get real some of you drivers/entrants use it or lose it.

[historic racer]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

And yet CTCRC/BARC have a meeting at Thruxton this weekend and the BARC did the sensible thing and amalgamated a race as they only had 4 entries from one group so the group all withdrew, I say get real some of you drivers/entrants use it or lose it.

Quite right Al, let the prima dona's go, obviously the series has fallen out of fashion so if they won't co-operate close it down ! We run in the BARC Tin Tops and have combined with the QMN resulting in a good grids and racing for everyone, not heard any complaints so long may it continue !!!!

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by simes43

the BRSCC show little regard for the
competitor, preferring to dictate from an ivory tower.

Nothing has changed then.

[Lancsbreaker]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

And yet CTCRC/BARC have a meeting at Thruxton this weekend and the BARC did the sensible thing and amalgamated a race as they only had 4 entries from one group so the group all withdrew, I say get real some of you drivers/entrants use it or lose it.

I understand your comment, Al - I guess its referring to the Alfa Romeo OC series - which as you know I'm connected with. I'm bitterly disappointed that we didn't get the support that we needed to run this race, but I understand that the reasons were that it was a meet with races over two days (increasing costs) and it was within a few weeks of our last meeting....

That led to low entries (paradoxically half of them being from competitors based at the opposite end of the country!) and the pragmatic decision to merge the races...but perhaps understandably, our members didn't really want to travel a considerable distance to race with a group of people they didn't know.....all of us who've raced appreciate the rapport that you build up with the guys you race with - you know who you can trust and who you have to allow a wide berth to...

I hope and intend that we can develop our series from its first year to a more succesful 2nd year - I think the Series has potential, and anyone who's seen Classic Alfas being pushed to the limit will surely agree...

[simes43]

I believe that many of the clubs get held to ransom
by series coordinators/"owners" demands.

"If you don't give me a grid for my hybrid Facel
Vega series, I'm taking my healthy original
championship elsewhere".

I now run an FIA car, expensive , but I can choose
who, when and where I race.

[Lancsbreaker]

Originally Posted by historic racer

Quite right Al, let the prima dona's go, obviously the series has fallen out of fashion so if they won't co-operate close it down ! We run in the BARC Tin Tops and have combined with the QMN resulting in a good grids and racing for everyone, not heard any complaints so long may it continue !!!!

Just looked at the entries for the Thruxton races.....the one that the AROC racers would have been amalgamated with (pre-93) was dominated by Sierra Cossies and BMW M3s - the oldest car probably being an Opel Ascona. Our competitors were in 70s or early 80s Alfas - 105 GT Junior, Alfasud, Alfetta GTV - can't say I really blame them for not wanting to race in that company....when the post-historics which would arguably have been a better fit only had 8 entries. Not really "Prima Donna" behaviour - more "horses for courses".