V8 Supercar Parity

[Troy]

Even though I am a FORD supporter, why cut 100mm off all the HOLDENS front undertrays?
If you have a look at the results, it is really just HRT and Tander beating the FORDS. Buy taking 100mm of all the HOLDENS, the slower HOLDENS like McConville, Forbes, Mezera, Poole, Faulkner, Smerdon etc. will just be slowed more, when they need all the help they can get to be more competitive.

What should be done, is to introduce success ballast like the BTCC.

But that is only my opinion.

[Peter Mallett]

No.

What should be done is to get rid of the splitters and return the cars to the bodywork that which the manufacturers designed. Then you have a competition between manufacturers. Otherwise make it a TEAM'S championship and allow free aerodynamics.

[Crash Test]

Woo Hoo, 15 points!!!!

Was having a chat with a mate and we came up with the following:
1. They would ignore it.
2. Fine him $500
3. Fine Radisich $500 for getting in the road.

But still, HRT have the gun lawers...i wouldn't be surprised if we see 3 come true yet...

I think better punishment would have been to have his eyebrow shaved off.....(oooh thats nasty )

[Crash Test]

1. 10cm will not do anything. When they took 20cm off the Falcons it did a little, but you look at the rest of the parity changes (ie 5mm off the holdens wing, raising the falcon wing) it did nothing.
2. HRT will be in front at the next round, and forever more because they have access to the Holden bottomless bank account.
3. The lower teams? Well what can they do? Change the rules? Fantastic! What they should do is spend more money and be at the front
4. Clowndes.......clowndes clowndes clowndes...Punting off a few people..shame shame shame... if it were anyone else they would have scored a black flag... Just goes to show that when he isn't running first he can't handle the pressure, and i think yesterday he cracked...

[Troy]

Lowndes has been docked 15 points for turning Radisich around.

[elephino]

Ah parity...what a stupid subject. I'm sorry, but that is the way I feel. Why must the win ratio be 51%/49% to one manufacturer?

I agree that so many suffer by one or two teams dominance. When the Winfield Holdens dominated, when Bowe dominated, when HRT dominate, etc, then whichever car they drive suffers and the people down the back suffer more. They don't have the money to test as much (though not as bad as it used to be with only 12 days testing allowed) nor for research and development or anything else money can buy.

This undertray thing is quite popular but I don't see how it will make it more even, because over a single lap at most circuits there is very little if anything between Ford and Holden. Somehow they have to make the Holdens perform the same way over a race distance. If they can do that then they will have parity. Of course if more manufacturers could race there wouldn't be this problem as all they would do is develop their cars and go faster rather than develop their cars to be almost the same as the car before.

[Crash Test]

"though not as bad as it used to be with only 12 days testing allowed"
-That still disadvantages the small teams. A 3 car set up like HRT can in essance have 36 testing days opposed to a 1 car set up with 12. A new one car team (say Brad Jones or Cameron McLean)are always going to be behind in development, because they don't have the 3 years of data HRT have on their cars, they certainly aren't going to make it up in 12 test days...

[DJ]

My solution(s) to the parity problem:
1. The Lead Trophy - Use the FIA points system for each of the 3 races and add 1kg per point. A clean sweep one week will add 30 kg the next. Maybe allow the lead to be removed after 3 meetings...

2. Give HRT an AU, and FTR a VT. Each point scored by the FTR VT and the HRT AU go to the team's manufacturer and start up a team's championship, similar to F1.

3. Do not mess with the aero packages of the car. Midfield and worse teams will have infinitely more of a problem trying to cope.

[Buckshot]

The ASTC have gone with the weight for the winners system this year as posted in another thread.

Everyone seems to be saying it's the answer but it appears to be falling on deaf ears at AVESCO who have decided to slug all the Commodores for the succes of HRT and Tander.

This to me seems extra stupid because Bargs would be driving pretty much the same weapon as Tander exept for personal setup preference and he is struggling to stay where he is.

I'm a Holden fan through and through but a little voice inside me breathed a sigh of relief when The Rat won race 2 at the Creek.

I watch the V8s, ASTC, F1 and Indy Cars and really the only category out of those providing any sort of real honest racing where you don't know who's gonna win is the Indys.

V8 Supercar fans need to start a letter writing campaign to AVESCO - We want the weight system as the answer to parity and a decent V8 Supercar sim !

Cheers Buck.

[Crash Test]

The lead trophy system is the way to; Ford agree, Holden agree, we agree.
But now its tiem again for Crash Test's conspiracy theory*!!!

As lop sided as the score card is, unfortunately a majority of fans are Holden (i am not one of them). Would the people who run the series want to penalise the favorites? I guessi could use a World Cup cricket analogy. The Australian would team with Mark Waugh and Shane Warne playing with with shoe laces tied together and their hands glued to their pockets. Australia would still win for a while against countries liek New Zealand and England, but it would become a lot harder, and adventualy they would start losing. When they start losing, people will stop supporting it as much. (did i just **** on something cronic or what? i think it is breakfast time...)

Remember Bowe brought up the lead issue when he won the championship in 1995. They ignored him then, and will ignore him ever more. Holden will still be on top in Hidden Valley. It is not a fast track whihc is sensitive to aerodynamics, and that 10cm wont do anything anyways. When they have 2 cars which are very diffenrent in some areas (but identiacal in most), getting exact parity is impossible. What they need is parity between budgets. DO you think HRT are the fastest because they just got lucky? No, they are there because they have the money to do the little things that the other teams can't afford to do.

*not to be taken seriously at all...

[DJ]

I agreee. Like Redesign the exhaust on the VT's in Adelaide - have a look - all exhaust pipes exit on the passenger side - must be something to do with the heat on the drivers.

[Buckshot]

I think what has happened is the professionalism of the whole V8 Supercar category has risen dramatically over the last few years and some teams are still coming to terms with it.

For example since Lowndes hit the scene we have seen the teams favor young fit drivers instead of old rich blokes. Look at CART and F1 how young most of the guys are there. With young guys such as Tander, Bargs and Baird being so young with great careers ahead of them, teams can see what a great investment this young talent is and the old blokes are starting to feel the heat from the young guns. These young blokes can maybe try their hand at going overseas like Brighty and if it falls apart they can come back and get a drive no problem.

Innovations like the exhaust modifications to the HRT and Young Lions car are a good example of how it’s going to be the smart thinkers that will dominate this category like any other. For example Ferrari and McLaren in F1 pretty much leave everyone else behind on most race days as they have the budget and brains to do it. Most other teams also modified their cars for the Adelaide race. Some examples are something as simple as an esky full of dry ice behind the drivers seat feeding cold air into the race suit or even the other end of the spectrum where I think it was the K-Mart team that had a full on breathing apparatus in the helmet – an idea I think they got from a NASCAR in the states. Murph and Richo almost looked like TIE Fighter pilots !

V8 Supercar is going ballistic and is still in a very transitional phase. I think it will be in this state of flux for a year or two more as well. Like any other category it’s the smart innovative teams that are going to come up in front.

[Green_man4421]

As long as the cars stick to the guidlines set out in the series they should not be penilised change the guidlined if you don't have parity.

You win so we will make you lose what will be the point in winning.

I don't really know.

[Crash Test]

"old rich blokes"
-It is still rich old blokes who are out there ruling it, but the thing is that they are the parents of the young gun ho drivers.

Do ya'll think this world wide youth push may be because drivers are starting at an earlier age, and are more competitive right form the start?

But back to this Daddy paying for little boys racing. You look at today's fields, in the SCS or Lights. They are still dominated by people who have been in the game from the old, non-professional days, old rich people, or young people with a father. They all have to get their money from somewhere.

But i can tell you my favorite, Wayne Wakefield, doesn't have the rich father, and he isn't rolling in it either. He is a pure talent, and the reason he is able to go racing is because he has a supporters club, nation wide, which fund his racing. Add to this his main backer and team owner David Skilender, who would prefer to watch Wayne in a V8, than himself campaigning the car or his HQ.

Sure there are some you are battlers, and run on a shoestring, but there aren't too many around that got to where they are in current times with just speed... In the olden days it would have happened all of the time, but it never cost the amounts of money it does these days back then...

[Green_man4421]

Yeah itz the way of the world all about money.

What a stupid rationale!!! Weighting winners.
You go out there, put in on the limit, earn that throphy and then get slugged with a penalty!!!! Eh, come on???
Next thing you know Manchester United's soccer team will have lead belts around their waists to give the other teams a chance.
If the Wallabies win the next World Cup, are they going to get a weight penalty? The same could be said for the Aussie Rugby League team, the Indian hockey team. You name it and the same senario could apply.
Of course, they could get rid of the aero kits. But then one marque would complain about the height of their bootlids compared to the car's roof line is better or worse than the other, or track or width etc. So the arguement goes on.
V8 Supercars is a parity formula and both makes have had to cop it in the past. With the current guidelines in place all the level one teams should be on a par with their marque colleagues.
Perhaps some of them should lift their game.

[Crash Test]

The thing is that none of the competitors (openly) have a problem with it. The only one who does have a problem with it is Avesco. If Manchester United won every game, and it was becoming predictable like it is now, will the people keep watching? hell no. If the Harlem Globe Trotters played normal basketball, would anyone go to watch them? probably not..

[This message has been edited by Crash Test (edited 11 May 2000).]