Flag Material

[ProCo2020]

Hi everyone,

Apologies for the potentially stupid question but is there any restriction on the material flags can be manufactured in?

Reading the Blue Book I understand the size must be 75cm x 60cm but it does not mention if should be of a certain material or flexibility.

Your advice is appreciated.

[Paul Newns]

So long as the flags are the right size and a suitable colour any material will be OK. I have flags made from a light, satin-type material because they are light and dry quickly but use whatever you feel comfortable with. Some people use rip stop nylon but I find it a bit inflexible.

[deley]

Don't forget the red is a larger size

[ProCo2020]

Originally Posted by deley

Don't forget the red is a larger size

Can you advise the relevant section of the BB for that as I was looking in Q, I think, and only spotted the increase in size for Internationals.

[Slipstick]

When I needed a second yellow I made that from ripstop nylon. It's good in the wet but it is bit crinkly and doesn't "flow" well.

And of course circuit flags always seem to be made of heavyweight canvas .

AFAIK you do only need the 100x80cm Red for FIA sanctioned meetings (at least I hope so cus mine is the standard 80x60).

Steve

[Chigley]

Hi, I make flags; the choice of material is entirely up to you. Remember though you could be waving a flag for a considerable period of time in very adverse weather, be it hot, cold, wet or windy so if the material is not suitable for the conditions you are going to make life difficult for yourself. Too light and they won't fly properly, too heavy your arm will soon tell you, not suitable for the weather = too heavy.
There is no MSA regulation or guidance on colour codes, unlike the FIA, however you will find that green is very difficult to find an acceptable shade. The FIA shade of Pantone 348C is a pig to get even close to, fabric manufacturers don't seem to like the colour.
Although the MSA and FIA regulate on the minimum sizes for flags in practice the minimum size is very small in appearance when on a circuit. Make your flags to a size that is easily visible to drivers when in crap conditions but remember you have to wave them. The red flag is the one that always seems to be undersized when bought from a supplier. To MSA regs it's 75x60cms and international (FIA) it's 100x80cms. The MSA size is woeful and I have yet to see a manufactured red flag that is at least 100x80cms.

If you are interested in buying flags, drop me a PM.

[rotation]

Originally Posted by ProCo2020

Can you advise the relevant section of the BB for that as I was looking in Q, I think, and only spotted the increase in size for Internationals.

From the 2015 book:
https://www.msauk.org/assets/2015msayearbook.pdf

Page 273 (275 in file)
Part 2 : The Regulations -> Section Q: Circuit Racing -> Subsection 5.2

The minimum size for any flag or appropriately coloured signal panel (15.1) (other than the Starter’s flag) is 75cm x 60cm (N.B. International regulations require the Red flag to be 80cmx100cm minimum).

I hope this helps.

[deley]

I would go for flag sizes that meet the FIA reg sizes as they will also meet the MSA regs as well.

[Shelagh]

My first set of flags were made from shower-proof material bought in a shop in Manchester. Then I was told the yellows were "too fluorescent" (I was a year ahead of the MSA on that score), so the replacements were made from sari material!

The "oil" flag contained the fluorescent yellow: it was commented on when first used!

I never did worry too much about FIA/larger Red sizes; my theory being that my flags got washed so the colour showed up anyway! But we always used Silverstone Flags for the GP so it was never a problem.

I put them on 1/2" dowling poles and used coloured tape on the end of the handle so I would know what colour flag was on the other end because I preferred to have them "handle up" when not in use.

We still have some flag holders looking for good homes.

[racerkeke]

Also think about the length of the flag sticks. Grab a flag (any old one will do, not just a track flag) and try holding (for surface) or waving it as you would at the track. Note where your hand is on the stick. Make the sticks for your new flags just an inch or so longer than where your hand naturally would be when waving/holding. If the sticks are too long they will interfere with your natural waving motion.
keke

[thepits!]

Why is there no standard for flags?

Every circuit appears to have their own idea!

Ranging from HUGE tablecloths on broom handles

To titchy handkerchiefs on a tooth-pick [well, not quite, but you get the idea.]

And, as for material, well anything seems to be used!

Anyone else here had to try and wave a [Yellow] Cloth Tablecloth on a Broom-handle [for a SC] in the rain?

[Slipstick]

Originally Posted by thepits!

Anyone else here had to try and wave a [Yellow] Cloth Tablecloth on a Broom-handle [for a SC] in the rain?

Yes, I've been to Donington. Some wag had even been round and stuck some quite official-looking "FIA standard broomstick" labels on the handles .

Steve

[KayBee]

I heard, straight from the horse's mouth, about one marshal who realised too late that they didn't have a blue flag so used their jumper until one could be brought to them.

[thepits!]

Originally Posted by Slipstick

Some wag had even been round and stuck some quite official-looking "FIA standard broomstick" labels on the handles . Steve

- two hands required in the dry, in the wet / rain? phone a friend

[Woolley]

I've suffered from one of Donington's blanket on a plastic drainpipe on a wet week-end scenarios. Permanently stretched ligament in my right thumb the result.

[Shelagh]

It was a white flag at Donington that caused me to make my first set of flags - when I realised it was taller than I was. I'm not sure who was waving whom!

I had long-er poles to help with the balance when waving the flags, but not long enough to get tangled up in your elbow.

[SouthportFC Fan]

If you're tempted to make your flaps as light as possible, don't use carbon fibre as the pole, 'coz in a high wind, they're likely to fold back on themselves if the pole is too thin.

[racerkeke]

The Le Mans flags are massive. I need to stand on a box to get a good "throw." Yeah, I'm vertically-challenged.
keke

[PVDA]

The FIA mandates the actual colour so I would assume so would the MSA if you dig deep enough.

[Chigley]

Originally Posted by PVDA

The FIA mandates the actual colour so I would assume so would the MSA if you dig deep enough.

No. As I make circuit flags for others I have dug, (to your part of the world), deep and have spoken to the MSA at race committee, technical and marshal's office level there is no colour specifications at all for any colour flag; which surprised the MSA as well. This was discovered when I was trying to get information on the dreaded shade of green required. All the MSA could say was to use the FIA specification.

Pantone348C

[Slipstick]

I'm pretty sure there's no specification that's actually enforced....most of the circuit yellows I've used have been a sort of muddy light brown and whites are inevitably very grey.

But I'm glad to know that my rather garish fluorescent yellow ripstop flag, as well as being highly visible and undoubtedly yellow, is also (probably) legal .

Steve

[thepits!]

Originally Posted by Slipstick

But I'm glad to know that my rather garish fluorescent yellow ripstop flag, as well as being highly visible and undoubtedly yellow, is also (probably) legal . Steve

As there appears to be no official mandate then it is ... Legal

[RNHodge]

I was once blue flagging at Church with the blue in hand proudly waving it aloft my head and felt a sudden slap in the back of my head....

Turns out as the flag was so big it hit me in the back of my head and took my cap off with it!

I recommend your own flags; the yellow made for me by Ian Chalmers is brilliant even in the micro climate that exists at Combe

[thepits!]

Originally Posted by RNHodge

I was once blue flagging at Church with the blue in hand proudly waving it aloft my head and felt a sudden slap in the back of my head.... Turns out as the flag was so big it hit me in the back of my head and took my cap off with it! I recommend your own flags; the yellow made for me by Ian Chalmers is brilliant even in the micro climate that exists at Combe

Whilst I commend those who use their own flags, why should that be necessary?

There should be standard approved flags supplied at all circuits!

We're volunteers, they are paid to provide the facilities.

That includes our equipment!

[RNHodge]

Originally Posted by thepits!

Whilst I commend those who use their own flags, why should that be necessary?

There should be standard approved flags supplied at all circuits!

We're volunteers, they are paid to provide the facilities.

That includes our equipment!

Whilst this is of course what should happen It's not necessarily what happens!

If you're in charge of doing something that communicated with the driver then I want to make sure the signal I'm displaying is easily seen and understood.

Flags need to be clean, a standard size and easily flapped around. At some circuits just keeping them clean and mould free seems difficult! Hence I bring my own; I rarely use them, but I know I have them in any case.