The Devil is in the Detail - Moto GP Tech Discussion

[bestfit]

An interesting article by Dennis Noyes about the current state of MotoGP

[jhansen]

Thought this deserved its own thread. In short, the article discusses the spectacle that is Moto GP. It focuses on rider aids and the lack of racing. Two sad points from the article:

1. There has not been an overtaking for the lead on the last lap in MotoGP since the penultimate MotoGP 990cc race of 2006 when Toni Elias beat Valentino Rossi by .002. That was 40 races ago, and it means that there has never been a last-lap lead change in the two years and four races since the 800cc class replaced the 990cc class.

2. The 2008 season was the first year since 1987 when not a single race in the premier class (500/MotoGP) was decided by less than a second.

[Jeff 8]

I read the article and think he is just a whinger. He was probably one of the ones that complained in 95 -96 that the bikes were too hard to ride because only Doohan could go anywhere near the limits. Or one that whinged that in the Rainey-Lawson-Gardiner era that they crashed too much.

Do we want to go back to barely rideable beasts where only one rider can push hard? Where riders are crippled or killed on a regular basis. What next, push starts? Single cylinders? Armco railings?

There is just no pleasing some people.

Jeff

[chunder]

i am torn in the middle really as I like to see a mastre at work and you do get that to some extent with Valentino and Casey but you cant really see them doing anything different, hence the speculation that Casey rides with all the settings turned up to the max when in actual fact the opposite is true and if anything he rides the bike freer than most, especially Pedrosa!

I agree with the sentiment that guys like Rainey, Gardner, Roberts and Spencer et al were visibly doing different things and using God like ability to go faster, but things change.

I don't like it, I feel that modern top class GP racing is utterly dull, there is little overtaking, the bikes are all in line (usually) and the riders have to ride within the limits of the electronics, fuel tank or tyres!

The last real shock was McCoy who found he could look after the tyres better by spinning them more! The trouble was that as soon as Roberts, Rossi and the big teams got hold of the tyre, McCoy was left in the wilderness and the big teams started to dictate what they wanted in construction from that tyre, not McCoy who with Red Bull found that it worked anyway!!

With the 4 strokes, the first few years were amazing, the bikes sounded proper, they slid and the riders could use their ability, Biaggi won races when he could set up the Yam to ride in line, Barros won coz he was using an older slipper clutch that Rossi didnt have and Vale won coz he was able to do what Rainey, Doohan, Lawson et al used to do and manage the tyre when it was off better than anyone else. And Gibernau found he could do the same, just not quite as well as Valentino.

I dont mind watching the racing now, but I think the electronics should be slackened off as they have been in F1. Let them use pneumatics, diff firing orders but ban TC, ban launch contro, coz that is a skill in itself, ban wheelie control coz we all love footage of riders scrambling over a bike to keep the front down.

Dont ban deceleration control, thats fine, dont ban data acquisition, but ban things like tyre sensors, and stuff that only opens the thrittles 73.2% at turn three even though the rider is on the stop.

Thats not riding

[bestfit]

An excellent post chunder.
That pretty well sums up how I am feeling about MotoGP at the moment.

[djb]

great post.

From a personal pt of view, in the bit of racing I did, I was completely and utterly an amateur, on an out of date bike for the fields I was in, so was always towards the back (did so-so in makeup races for the guys who didnt advance to the finals, even against faster bikes, which keeps my old memories of self-esteem not completely knackered)
On a low powered bike, I didnt have many slidey moments (momentum momentum momentum) and what I did was never really fast (1st, 2nd gear corners) so I have complete fascination and respect for the 500 and 990 era of "backing em in and power sliding em out" riding. It just blows me away with the skill of the riders (hell, I could never even learn to do a proper long wheelie, balancing it with throttle or brake)

So all that is to say that I disagree completely that it is whining (whinging, whatever) because it is exactly the fine cutting edge of bike control that sets the best riders apart, and they are going to go to that limit no matter what the bike, so for me reducing the 73.28% auto throttle is a must. (and reduce the mounting costs, why not, its a win win)

I guess as with all racing, the details are in the policing of it all so that a "Benneton" situation doesnt happen.

[DavidStHubbins]

thank god for wsbk!

[Schummy]

A side note about MotoGP/500cc techs. Those kids on their little, cheap 125cc bikes lapped Jerez faster then 500cc did until 1992. Lawson, Rainey, Schwanz, Doohan (pre 92) in their heydays were slower than current 125cc teenagers.

Jerez is not a fast track, but similar figures can be get in some other circuits.

[chunder]

Thats a staggering stat Schum, I remember in the 90's the prime reason Aprilia went for a 500 twin was coz when Reggiani won the Brit GP in 93 his rade time was a teeny bit slower than Luca's race time.

The problem was that on a free track the twins were fine, but off the line and on straights the were hopeless

But noone told Harada that at Mugello eh! That guy was a total genius!! and Jezza or that matter

[Dani Filth]

yeah .. Harada on the qualy dunlops on pole at Mugello in 99 .. finished 4th too
always loved the Aprilia SuperTwin .. the honda twin was boring though

[chunder]

I loved the Honda twin actually, thought it sounded good and made the lower end of the field a nice race to watch

THe Repsol bike was damn quick aswell, Aoki, Sete and Okada could have won races on it and perhaps should.

And it really helped grids when teh old YZR's were too pricey to run anymore

[Dani Filth]

it was fast indeed .. especially in Okada's hands .. but still boring for me

[AndrewF31]

Really nice article by a great motorbike man, with the likes of Randy Mamola.
I haven't seen MotoGP this season with Eurosport losing the rights but last year's races were indeed not as competitive as they used to be. It's not just because Rossi is so damn good. As Dennis notes Pedrosa, Stoner and Lorenzo don't exactly suck.
A good example is perhaps Hayden. He completely fell off the boat in the last couple of years. He excelled with the 990s. Loris Capirossi may be old but he doesn't look like he got into these new bikes.
Fantastic bike riders like Garry McCoy wouldn't be noticeable on these bikes.

[jhansen]

There's a brief piece on Kenny Roberts Jr. on superbikeplanet. He states that today's riders have to be less than 140 pounds to be competitive, and that Rossi will be the last successful lanky rider in Moto GP. So, are we entering the age of the jockey in modern grand prix racing?

[djb]

Originally Posted by jhansen

There's a brief piece on Kenny Roberts Jr. on superbikeplanet. He states that today's riders have to be less than 140 pounds to be competitive, and that Rossi will be the last successful lanky rider in Moto GP. So, are we entering the age of the jockey in modern grand prix racing?

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