Were Jordan in the wrong?

**Born Racer** · 20 Jun 2005, 10:12 (Ref:1334299)

It was apparantly only Ferrari who objected to not running the race, and Paul Stoddart says Minardi chose to race only after hearing Jordan went back on their decision and decided to do so.

Now personally, I don't think I can knock any of the Bridgestone teams for competing (after all, when all's said and done, they were the only ones who offered the poor spectators any entertainment), but Jordan did seem to have a last-minute reversed decision (can you blame them? look at the points they had up for grabs, and the TV exposure for any sponsors!)

What do you think would have happened if they had held that decision to the end? Would only Ferrari have competed?

Oh, and on a positive note, well done to Tiago Monteiro for despite pointing out that it was a sad race, unashamedly telling the world of his joy at his result in the press conference.

Kicking-back · 20 Jun 2005, 10:19 (Ref:1334304)

The result proves they were correct to race.

That's a top-ten constructors place secured for another year.

Menelaos · 20 Jun 2005, 10:44 (Ref:1334323)

Of course. However, they could have withdrew as well, and then you'd have only the Ferraris going round. a) that wouldn't be the best image for Ferrari (maybe they'd withdraw too) b) maybe someone would finally decide to postpone the race.

Hazard · 20 Jun 2005, 10:46 (Ref:1334328)

Although I can't blame them for actually competing...you shouldn't go back on promises you were never going to keep.

If Eddie Jordan was still there, I'd be surprised to have seen the Jordan running and therefore the Minardi's either. I think it was a poor play by Jordan.

Do quite like de la Rosa's interview at the beginning..."9 teams have said they will not race (Jordan drives out on the track right by him), well, 8 now!".

racer69 · 20 Jun 2005, 10:55 (Ref:1334336)

There were points to be had, Jordan had tyres which were deemed safe, they were crazy not to race (I bet if EJ was still in charge, and considering the current state of Jordan, he'd have raced).

Same with Minardi, if you were running Bridgestone's you were crazy not to race, there were guarenteed points up for grabs points.

Sodemo · 20 Jun 2005, 10:57 (Ref:1334338)

Poor show by Jordan, they didn't break any "rules" as such, but they did go back on a promise not to race, typical of the new owner and team management. They should be embarrassed.

Testure · 20 Jun 2005, 11:04 (Ref:1334347)

I found myself thinking that Eddie Jordan wouldn't have raced his cars, but who can say for sure? Burgess slyly pointed at that he was told by his boss to race, so it wasn't his decision. A very clumsy move by Kolles, I think. He might have just bought himself a sackful of bad will from all his peers bar Ferrari.

Menelaos · 20 Jun 2005, 11:10 (Ref:1334356)

Quote:

Originally Posted by racer69

There were points to be had, Jordan had tyres which were deemed safe, they were crazy not to race (I bet if EJ was still in charge, and considering the current state of Jordan, he'd have raced).

Same with Minardi, if you were running Bridgestone's you were crazy not to race, there were guarenteed points up for grabs points.

Yeah, but they could have said that from the beginning, of course. What's wrong with them is that initially they said they wouldn't race.

ParkLife · 20 Jun 2005, 11:22 (Ref:1334365)

Speaking as a long term Jordan fan - Yes they were wrong to race.

F1 as a whole needed to pull together and sort out this fiasco.

alfasud · 20 Jun 2005, 11:41 (Ref:1334381)

Hmmm... they turned up with a car that was suitable for racing, tyres that were suitable for racing and they went racing. Nothing wrong with that at all.

They may have been wrong to have added credibility to the idea of some last minute jury rigged chicane... but they certainly weren't wrong to go racing.

Possibly Jordan's support for the chicane option might have been influenced by the fact that their engine supplier was sitting on pole (with Michelin tyres) and they thought it a good political move to support them.

Sodemo · 20 Jun 2005, 11:46 (Ref:1334391)

Quote:

Originally Posted by alfasud

Hmmm... they turned up with a car that was suitable for racing, tyres that were suitable for racing and they went racing. Nothing wrong with that at all.

They may have been wrong to have added credibility to the idea of some last minute jury rigged chicane... but they certainly weren't wrong to go racing.

Possibly Jordan's support for the chicane option might have been influenced by the fact that their engine supplier was sitting on pole (with Michelin tyres) and they thought it a good political move to support them.

In the same way, was it not a bad political move to in the end renege on the deal?

ralf fan · 20 Jun 2005, 11:55 (Ref:1334399)

Were they wrong? No... they saw the points on offer along with huge worldwide coverage of their cars with sponsors and they took the opportunity...

It wasnt the gentleman's thing to do surely... but in todays world of profits and business there is no room for gentlemans promises and no room for putting the sport and fans first unfortunately...

Hazard · 20 Jun 2005, 11:58 (Ref:1334404)

Don't forget, this is the worst possible result for Minardi...even though it's their best score in however long...as now Jordan are about 4 championships worth of points ahead of Minardi in points...there is little chance of Minardi passing them now.

Minardi were wholly reliant on an old ball point or at least high finish to officially classify ahead of Jordan this year. Unless BAR don't somehow at least score 7 points in the remainder of the season (somewhat unlikely, but not impossible), that's Minardi dead last for certain.

Menelaos · 20 Jun 2005, 11:59 (Ref:1334405)

Worldwide coverage?

I doubt 1/20 of the people who watched the first lap went on to watch the rest of this thing.

alfasud · 20 Jun 2005, 12:09 (Ref:1334416)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hazard

Don't forget, this is the worst possible result for Minardi...even though it's their best score in however long...as now Jordan are about 4 championships worth of points ahead of Minardi in points...there is little chance of Minardi passing them now.

Minardi were wholly reliant on an old ball point or at least high finish to officially classify ahead of Jordan this year. Unless BAR don't somehow at least score 7 points in the remainder of the season (somewhat unlikely, but not impossible), that's Minardi dead last for certain.

Gosh Hazard, you're not suggesting that Paul Stoddarts motives for wanting both Minardi and Jordan not to race or there to be no Michelin pullout, might have been something other than purely altruistic and for the good of the sport?

Kicking-back · 20 Jun 2005, 12:17 (Ref:1334430)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Menelaos

Worldwide coverage?

I doubt 1/20 of the people who watched the first lap went on to watch the rest of this thing.

Why not?

If there's a Grand Prix on - and there was - I'm watching.

ensign14 · 20 Jun 2005, 12:23 (Ref:1334438)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hazard

Although I can't blame them for actually competing...you shouldn't go back on promises you were never going to keep.

Yes. Had they said "we'll race regardless" more power to them. Having said "no we won't" and then changing their mind is pretty low.

kdr · 20 Jun 2005, 12:26 (Ref:1334441)

cool thread...its no longer ferraris fault for yesterday, its now jordans.

N I Tram · 20 Jun 2005, 12:30 (Ref:1334447)

I think Midland and Ferrari have both behaved selfishly, narrow-mindedly and generally objectionably. If Colin Kolles had put morals above greed, none of this would have happened. Seeing Montiero looking so happy on the podium in front of the fans who'd been robbed was perhaps the most sickening part of it all.

Hazard · 20 Jun 2005, 12:34 (Ref:1334453)

Quote:

Originally Posted by kdr

cool thread...its no longer ferraris fault for yesterday, its now jordans.

It was never Ferrari's fault. It's not Jordan's either. It's just Jordan weren't very gentlemanly IMO.

Menelaos · 20 Jun 2005, 12:53 (Ref:1334467)

Quote:

Originally Posted by kdr

cool thread...its no longer ferraris fault for yesterday, its now jordans.

This kind of attitude is unacceptable. We did NOT accuse Ferrari and we do NOT accuse Jordan. It's the FIA that failed to come up with a solution, and it's their fault. Full stop.

So, what now, can't we even say we disagree with the decision of a team, Ferrari, Jordan, McLaren, Williams or whatever? I don't understand why every time someone says he does not agree with Ferrari's actions people must distort the meaning of what he or she says.

ralf fan · 20 Jun 2005, 12:54 (Ref:1334469)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Menelaos

Worldwide coverage?

I doubt 1/20 of the people who watched the first lap went on to watch the rest of this thing.

we.... even if 1/20 people watched they still got coverage that they can only dream of in a race...

Menelaos · 20 Jun 2005, 12:56 (Ref:1334471)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kicking-back

Why not?

If there's a Grand Prix on - and there was - I'm watching.

you call that thing a grand prix? I agree with Stoddart it's a farce.

**Born Racer** · 20 Jun 2005, 15:42 (Ref:1334685)

Quote:

cool thread...its no longer ferraris fault for yesterday, its now jordans.

I didn't actually state that I think Jordan are to blame at all.

I don't think they were wrong to race per se (it makes perfect sense for many of the reasons outlined by others here..TV exposure, chance for points, the fact that they are there with the right tyres!), but if they were in on this pact not to race, then to change their mind didn't help unmuddle the whole situation, did it?

BootsOntheSide · 20 Jun 2005, 17:16 (Ref:1334830)

If Midland had stuck to their guns and refused to race, then a solution would have had to be found (probably involving the chicane being added and some kind of penalty for the Michelin teams). If Midland had been hoenst in the first place and always admitted that they planned to race, Michelin's teams might have been tempted into accepting a compromise to start the race, MAYBE pulling out of a problem did become evident during the race. Both of these situations owuld have been a big improvement on what actually happened. So in some ways they can be blamed for the way the situation unfolded.

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