Meanwhile over in the red corner.... (merged x2)

[GTRMagic]

GM almost fallen over??

Lets not think the belt tightening is limited to Ford. While Holden locally is said to be a profitable entity, the noise in the above article, and several hundred more like it, paint a picture of impending doom at GM...

[Peddler]

More like paint a picture of doom with V8Supercars!

Global trends will see production based V8's a thing of the past. If that is the case why would the manufacturers be seen to be supporting them. Soon it will be back to 4 cylinder "supertourer" style racing and a V8 will be something that you will see on a dragstrip and nothing more.

[chavez]

Originally Posted by Peddler

More like paint a picture of doom with V8Supercars!

Global trends will see production based V8's a thing of the past. If that is the case why would the manufacturers be seen to be supporting them. Soon it will be back to 4 cylinder "supertourer" style racing and a V8 will be something that you will see on a dragstrip and nothing more.

...and at the Speedway, 410 cubic inches

[ozrevhead]

If we limit to Holden and Ford there wont be V8 Supercars

time to have someone else enter the frey

[stmookeyj033]

Originally Posted by ozrevhead

If we limit to Holden and Ford there wont be V8 Supercars

time to have someone else enter the frey

Even if someone else enters it won't be V8 Supercars, more like V6 Supercars or something.

[Pro Racer]

if and when this oil thing passes would we get back to the way things were pre this or will there forever be pressure on the category.

[Denosaur]

Originally Posted by Pro Racer

if and when this oil thing passes would we get back to the way things were pre this or will there forever be pressure on the category.

Word from some financial propeller head's that I know, say that the Olympics in China and China are the cause of whats happening with the price of Oil these days. They're predicting that once the games are over and the focus on China has reduced, that it should settle down all the price rises. Was told that they're stockpiling a lot raw materials and resources because of the games.

With everyone jumping on the "Eco-friendly" bandwagon and wanting to reduce there carbon footprint as such, things such as cars and car companies are going to suffer. But like all things these days, I think the current situation is just another "fad" and sooner or later people will forget about it. Like for example in Melbourne people started ordering rain water tanks because there was no rain and everyone else was getting tanks. Then it started raining and people started canceling orders. Now they can't seem to move the tanks of the shelf's.

[RotorFan]

Originally Posted by Denosaur

With everyone jumping on the "Eco-friendly" bandwagon and wanting to reduce there carbon footprint as such, things such as cars and car companies are going to suffer. But like all things these days, I think the current situation is just another "fad" and sooner or later people will forget about it. Like for example in Melbourne people started ordering rain water tanks because there was no rain and everyone else was getting tanks. Then it started raining and people started canceling orders. Now they can't seem to move the tanks of the shelf's.

I'm glad someone else out there can see it for what it is! What Australia needs is a good recession to sort everyone out, then we'll see who still wants to be "green" and eat "organic" foods.

Sorry, a bit off topic

[MickAU]

Originally Posted by chavez

...and at the Speedway, 410 cubic inches

You might be onto something here Chavez - think about it:

-410ci (approx 6 litres) V8s
-Low stress, high horsepower (currently 850)
-Need a rebuild once per season (and they do 30 meetings at a high stress level)
-Run on Methanol - environmentally friendly and smells wicked.

Hmm...food for thought....

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by RotorFan

I'm glad someone else out there can see it for what it is! What Australia needs is a good recession to sort everyone out, then we'll see who still wants to be "green" and eat "organic" foods.

Sorry, a bit off topic

Maybe a bit off topic, but still relevant to what is happening to GM, V8 Supercars and the motoring industry in general. None of the greenies can ever explain past global warming phenomena before industrialisation. We are experiencing global warming, but it may have nothing to do with CO2 emissions.

[SSbaby]

Originally Posted by Pro Racer

if and when this oil thing passes would we get back to the way things were pre this or will there forever be pressure on the category.

Yes. I'm predicting the high fuel prices will pass within two years. If that happens to be so, then we will be demanding that we return to proper racing... V8SC - the right sounds, the big spoilers and high speed action. And the wheel turns full circle... again.

Back on topic... GM seems to be in more trouble than Ford if the reports are any guide. If you listen to the rhetoric, both companies are doomed and we will have the kind of motorsport the quasi-motorsport fans want to see - fuel efficient Corollas and Senatas dominating the grids... at venues lacking patrons.

[racer69]

Originally Posted by SSbaby

then we will be demanding that we return to proper racing... V8SC - the right sounds, the big spoilers and high speed action.
.

V8SC & proper racing in the one sentence??

[Casper]

I noted the scepticism and doubters re global warming in this thread. There were all so some who said smoking doesn't harm you but they are all dead now. Yesterday I heard on the radio that Formula One are becoming very concerned, even more so than the introduction of KERS has indicated so far and that unless they can get their act together regarding their carbon footprint they may have real problems promoting the sport. I went looking for the press release but can't find it. Now, if they are concerned every other race series in the world had better get their act together also or we won't have motorsport in any form for us to enjoy. V8's would appear to have a limited life in an environment such as this would appear to be an anachronism to say the least. BTW the greatest doubters in this world on global warming have admitted that it is a fact, they being Bush Jnr (bonsai to his mates) and J.Howard Esquire.

[cavvy]

On the stock market overnight Mattel was worth more than GM. The changing world order ....

[Driver TBA]

Originally Posted by cavvy

On the stock market overnight Mattel was worth more than GM. The changing world order ....

Well they do build small very fuel efficent cars

[Peter Nightingale]

With the share price of General Motors taking a very serious nose dive on the US market, & world markets, where does this possibly leave V8 Supercars in the future.???????????????

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Denosaur

Word from some financial propeller head's that I know, say that the Olympics in China and China are the cause of whats happening with the price of Oil these days. They're predicting that once the games are over and the focus on China has reduced, that it should settle down all the price rises. Was told that they're stockpiling a lot raw materials and resources because of the games.

With everyone jumping on the "Eco-friendly" bandwagon and wanting to reduce there carbon footprint as such, things such as cars and car companies are going to suffer. But like all things these days, I think the current situation is just another "fad" and sooner or later people will forget about it. Like for example in Melbourne people started ordering rain water tanks because there was no rain and everyone else was getting tanks. Then it started raining and people started canceling orders. Now they can't seem to move the tanks of the shelf's.

All this is, is speculators driving oil prices up to pump and dump. It's another bubble that will burst at some point. Right now it's 1979-1981 all over again. By 1984 the bubble had bust and fuel was 75 cents a gallon here in the USA.

Car sales are going down in all first world countries due to demand being satisfied. We've binged ourselves on debt funded purchases, now it's time to pay up. I expect things will be flat for a while, but it will eventually sort itself out.

The problem with GM as a whole is that it has failed to improve and evolve with the world and respond to competition. The main drag on GM in the USA is the unions. The unions have inflated costs to an unsustainable point. I can't remember the exact figure but for instance GM spends an eight figure sum annually on Viagra for union members. Crazy. People pushing a broom in their factories making $28 an hour. Crazy. The best thing that could happen for GM is to go bust and start over. Sad but true.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Casper

I noted the scepticism and doubters re global warming in this thread. There were all so some who said smoking doesn't harm you but they are all dead now. Yesterday I heard on the radio that Formula One are becoming very concerned, even more so than the introduction of KERS has indicated so far and that unless they can get their act together regarding their carbon footprint they may have real problems promoting the sport. I went looking for the press release but can't find it. Now, if they are concerned every other race series in the world had better get their act together also or we won't have motorsport in any form for us to enjoy. V8's would appear to have a limited life in an environment such as this would appear to be an anachronism to say the least. BTW the greatest doubters in this world on global warming have admitted that it is a fact, they being Bush Jnr (bonsai to his mates) and J.Howard Esquire.

The earth constantly cycles between cool and warm periods. Evidence shows the earth has been cooling since 1998 with most continents having very cool winters, the coolest in 30-40 years, the past year or two.

Global Warming a fact? Yes the earth warms from time to time. Man made? Doubtful. I haven't seen any evidence yet that positively confirms that man is responsible for radical temperature changes. Nor have I met anyone that has ever accurately predicted the future. The weatherman can't even get the weather forecast in the next few days down accurately, now these people can see to a degree of sharp accuracy what the weather will be in 2050. RIGHT....... One big belch from a volcano does more harm than any cars could do.

All it is, is a politically motivated vehicle to drive a certain agenda. I'm all for clean air, clean enviroments and new technologies, but carbon footprints? All that carbon trading jive is a scam for Al Gore to make money.

I don't think KERS will stop the fun police and enviro wizards from imposing their views on the sport.

[SSbaby]

Originally Posted by racer69

V8SC & proper racing in the one sentence??

I'm keen to know what your idea of the ideal formula is.

And Casper, I wish you'd take a deep breath for a moment and considered how F1 is considering 'cleaning up its act'. If you believe that their hybrid model will go part way toward cleaning up the world's carbon emissions problems, you better think again. From what I've researched, their hybrid drivetrain will only serve as a 'boost' feature, which will provide limited opportunities to pass vehicles in a straight line. So it must be used judiciously.

And (I keep harping on this) but the quasi-motorsport fans want to convert motorsport into a turtle race. Motorsport is about envisaging dreams without boundaries. It's also about cost containment. Somewhere therein lies the successful formula. Nowhere have I seen a motorsport category, short of the solar race D-A, that was about maximising energy efficiency. Last I checked, motorsport was about raw speed, raw power, noise that make the hair on the back of one's neck stand up, and race-bravado on the part of the driver. V8SC has all of these ingredients and one more thing coming... conversion to E85 fuel. How much more efficient would these racers be over a Prius, I wonder given the carbon emissions?

[racer69]

Originally Posted by SSbaby

I'm keen to know what your idea of the ideal formula is.

Certainly not racing restricted to two-makes, "cut & shut" chassis, mammoth amounts of control components, contrived pitstops etc etc...

might be good entertainment to the fringe followers, but its certainly not "proper racing" as you suggested.

[Nero]

Originally Posted by SSbaby

I'm keen to know what your idea of the ideal formula is.

And Casper, I wish you'd take a deep breath for a moment and considered how F1 is considering 'cleaning up its act'. If you believe that their hybrid model will go part way toward cleaning up the world's carbon emissions problems, you better think again. From what I've researched, their hybrid drivetrain will only serve as a 'boost' feature, which will provide limited opportunities to pass vehicles in a straight line. So it must be used judiciously.

And (I keep harping on this) but the quasi-motorsport fans want to convert motorsport into a turtle race. Motorsport is about envisaging dreams without boundaries. It's also about cost containment. Somewhere therein lies the successful formula. Nowhere have I seen a motorsport category, short of the solar race D-A, that was about maximising energy efficiency. Last I checked, motorsport was about raw speed, raw power, noise that make the hair on the back of one's neck stand up, and race-bravado on the part of the driver. V8SC has all of these ingredients and one more thing coming... conversion to E85 fuel. How much more efficient would these racers be over a Prius, I wonder given the carbon emissions?

E85 is a joke fuel...a politicians fuel and one that is not really viable in Australia.

[Casper]

Originally Posted by SSbaby

I'm keen to know what your idea of the ideal formula is.

And Casper, I wish you'd take a deep breath for a moment and considered how F1 is considering 'cleaning up its act'. If you believe that their hybrid model will go part way toward cleaning up the world's carbon emissions problems, you better think again. From what I've researched, their hybrid drivetrain will only serve as a 'boost' feature, which will provide limited opportunities to pass vehicles in a straight line. So it must be used judiciously.

Where did I infer anything of the sort you guys ought to learn to read though you are spot on with your observations re KEVS though Mr E would have us believe otherwise. It was not my press release and it was obviously a press release from the F1 promoters, I was just passing an observation, you don't get that sort of stuff in the news without some foundation. Deep breaths...hmmm.

[doug05]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

The earth constantly cycles between cool and warm periods. Evidence shows the earth has been cooling since 1998 with most continents having very cool winters, the coolest in 30-40 years, the past year or two.

Global Warming a fact? Yes the earth warms from time to time. Man made? Doubtful. I haven't seen any evidence yet that positively confirms that man is responsible for radical temperature changes. Nor have I met anyone that has ever accurately predicted the future. The weatherman can't even get the weather forecast in the next few days down accurately, now these people can see to a degree of sharp accuracy what the weather will be in 2050. RIGHT....... One big belch from a volcano does more harm than any cars could do.

All it is, is a politically motivated vehicle to drive a certain agenda. I'm all for clean air, clean enviroments and new technologies, but carbon footprints? All that carbon trading jive is a scam for Al Gore to make money.

I don't think KERS will stop the fun police and enviro wizards from imposing their views on the sport.

Never a truer word spoken! The global warming thing is a myth, a myth that can make people very rich! Maybe the dinosaurs drove around in v12 gas guzzlers and caused the last ice age, that could be the only possible explanation... I have an idea that we should get on 'for the environment', maybe the next incentive to reduce our carbon footprint is for spectators at the race track to buy carbon credits so we can all feel better about our sport... please

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by Casper

I noted the scepticism and doubters re global warming in this thread. There were all so some who said smoking doesn't harm you but they are all dead now. Yesterday I heard on the radio that Formula One are becoming very concerned, even more so than the introduction of KERS has indicated so far and that unless they can get their act together regarding their carbon footprint they may have real problems promoting the sport. I went looking for the press release but can't find it. Now, if they are concerned every other race series in the world had better get their act together also or we won't have motorsport in any form for us to enjoy. V8's would appear to have a limited life in an environment such as this would appear to be an anachronism to say the least. BTW the greatest doubters in this world on global warming have admitted that it is a fact, they being Bush Jnr (bonsai to his mates) and J.Howard Esquire.

Casper, most people don't doubt that there is global warming. What hasn't been proven is that it is being caused by CO2 emissions. There have been periods in earths past history where warm periods have occurred and there was no industrialisation. One period that comes to mind occurred about 1000 years ago (and I can't recall details) it was said to be much warmer than it is now......so how did that occur? Solar activity they believe......and we can't control that.

[SSbaby]

Originally Posted by bluesport

Casper, most people don't doubt that there is global warming. What hasn't been proven is that it is being caused by CO2 emissions. There have been periods in earths past history where warm periods have occurred and there was no industrialisation. One period that comes to mind occurred about 1000 years ago (and I can't recall details) it was said to be much warmer than it is now......so how did that occur? Solar activity they believe......and we can't control that.

One thing is certain... and that is that we will be paying more taxes as this carbon emissions push has been the silver bullet the politicians needed to increase revenue. As if the fuel crisis isn't enough. As if the reasons for the oil price increase isn't smoke and mirrors... along comes another tax that is proven in theory only. I guess it's in the best interests of the middle class and poor to pay dearly to live simply.

I'm really sorry I voted Krudd in. I only changed my vote because Howard was just Bush's puppet, incapable of standing up to the most powerful, most corrupt, most deceitful man in the world, hell bent on amassing generational personal wealth (along with his side-kick Cheney) at the expense of oil users the world over. But at least we have saved some pesos by pulling some troops from Iraq... not that we'll see any of that money being used wisely.

Herrr hmmmm, back on topic.