(technical) differences between F3-series

[Roninho]

Hi,

Could anybody tell me if there is, and if so, what the (technical) difference is between the different F3 classes? So between the series of spain, germany, Uk, Italy and the EuroF3 championship.

thnx

[strider]

The biggest difference this year is that the new for 2005 cars are only being raced in the British and Euro Series. Oh, and Japan. Most of the rest are sticking with the 2002 to 2004 generation cars. In the UK there is also a new National Class, which is for the previous generation cars, powerd by a control Mugen-Honda engine. This seems to be attracting a lot of interest and some new teams.

[Kicking-back]

Spain is the previous generation, with a control Toyota Engine.

[Eddy V]

The german F3's use catalyc converters, mandatory for all race classes in this *?**##**!** country.
So a little bit slower because of that, but not much.

[flor]

"cat's" are also mandatory in the Euro series

btw German F3 will have an oval race this year

[Daisy]

I thought Spanish F3 will race with Dallara F305's as well but I could be wrong. They all have Toyota engines, that's for sure.

[climb]

IN Spain both F301 and F305 will be run.

[Alfonso de Orleans]

Spain is running the Dallara's F305 (latest model) and everyone has the Toyota F3GS engine which is great and reduces costs. They also run some very good Dunlop tires which according to drivers in other championships, are the tires with the most grip of any F3 Championship. There is also a "Cup" class with the older F300 cars, they have the same engines and tires, but is much cheaper to run in. All in all there are expected to run about 30 cars. Also, one of the reasons for the popularity, is not only the much lower cost compared to other F3 championships, but also the prize money which can be quite substantial if the driver is consistently up front.

[Bobby]

Don't want to be negative, even if I might sound so but the Spanish F3 is not a "pure" F3 car. It's just a spec. Dallara F300-01/F305 chassis with spec. dampers (even used to have spec aero configuration, at least in the past) and is restricted in what the teams can do to the car. The engine is heavy and has not the "feel" of a real F3 engine and talking to drivers who have raced in both the Spanish and e.g. British F3, they say there is not a comparison. The real F3 cars are a lot better to drive. What I try to say is that just because you use a Dallara F3 as a basis for a championship it doesn't make it Formula 3. Formula 3 stands for a lot more... The Spanish F3 is just another one make championship. It might be a very good championship but it's not F3 and it's in my opinion not an F3 car...

[Valker]

The Finnish F3 then probably even less real F3. Cars are something from '90 to '98 and engines pretty much as old. Some drivers use old scandinavian F4 engines (1800cc VW) or even FormulaBaltic (1600cc with pretty free rules) !!

But hey, it's still the fastest class in Finland (but way too expensive)

Next season might be the last one for F3 in Finland but it's not certain yet.

[Deybit]

Is the Dallara F305 a F3 Chasis? yes....
Is the Dallara F300 a F3 Chasis? Yes....

so Spanish F3 is a real F3!

[Roninho]

Originally Posted by foxy mole

The biggest difference this year is that the new for 2005 cars are only being raced in the British and Euro Series. Oh, and Japan. Most of the rest are sticking with the 2002 to 2004 generation cars. In the UK there is also a new National Class, which is for the previous generation cars, powerd by a control Mugen-Honda engine. This seems to be attracting a lot of interest and some new teams.

But are the new cars (so chassis & engines) the same in Uk / Euro / Jap F3? So would one be allowed to run in for example the euro f3 championship with a car which is allowed in the UK?

[Alfonso de Orleans]

"the Spanish F3 is not a "pure" F3 car. It's just a spec. Dallara F300-01/F305 chassis with spec. dampers (even used to have spec aero configuration, at least in the past) and is restricted in what the teams can do to the car."
Quote from BOBBY

Wrong, the dampers are the same as any F3 team, they run exactly the same ones as what ASM run in the Euroseries and on top of that you can do whatever you want with them.

As for the aero package, unlike the previous model, for the F305 there will be aero upgrades, so it will allow the teams to be up to date to race in Macau, Zandvoort, Bahrain, etc.

As for the engine, it's not heavier, it even has the same amount of HP. The only thing it does not have is the same amount of torque, which allows these engines to last a whole season, including pre-season testing and season testing. So no, it does not feel the same, it might feel like an F3 engine of 5 years ago, but everyone saves a fortune.

Everything else on the F305 is the same as the Euroseries except the tires, which are better in Spain with the Dunlops which have quite a bit more grip and last longer.

So is it and F3? No doubt about it, no difference except less torque, and in exchange for less torque, three times lower budget. Is it worth it? I think so, especially if it's your first year. It's cheaper than British F. BMW and a much better Championship considering the amount of testing you get and the great F1 tracks you get to race at. There is also great prize money and an F1 test with Toyota for the winner. If that is not value for money, I don't know what is.

[Bobby]

Dear Alfonso,

I am not criticising the championship! I think it sounds great. Prize money, good tyres, race under the spanish sun and as you say for a lot less money ... I was just stating the fact that "Formula 3" is one of the last open formulas in this world of one-make racing cars and the Spanish Formula 3 is not a real F3 championship in it's pure definition. You can't take a Spanish F3 car and race it in the e.g British F3 or the F3 Euroseries or an international FIA F3 race without a lot of modifications...

And for the dampers, Spanish F3 dampers might be the best in the world but you can't run Ohlins or Eibach etc so they are a spec. damper (even if the team change the internals etc to suit the way the set-up the car)

[Alfonso de Orleans]

You can take a Spanish F305, change the engine, tires and race it in England, Euroseries and the international races. The car is ready for it. As for the Ohlins or other shocks, it's the teams that all decided on the Koni when it was said to have it open shocks. So it's as open as you want, but if all the teams decided to go with Koni because they work the best in Spain and have good service, well, that's what they decided. To give you an example, we are currently looking for a engine budget to go to Macau and Bahrain. And all we need is an engine budget, nothing else (except travel off course, but that goes without saying). That goes to show that the car will be more than competitive the way it will race this year.

I see your point and understand that you are not trying to speak badly of the championship, but unlike the past, it has changed it's rules to come into line with the Euroseries rules except for engine and tires. We now have a "real F3" apart from the engine, and guess what, I think that the engine deal is fantastic because it reduce the costs tremendously and you can test like crazy. Isn't that great. So don't worry, I am not upset, but I want to point out that it's a serious F3 Championship on par with the rest.

[strider]

Originally Posted by Roninho

But are the new cars (so chassis & engines) the same in Uk / Euro / Jap F3? So would one be allowed to run in for example the euro f3 championship with a car which is allowed in the UK?

Basically, yes. When British F3 raced at Spa last year a couple of cars from Signature came along and the year before there were three from Prema and one from Germany.

[Roninho]

Thanx for all the info!

[Roninho]

Originally Posted by flor

btw German F3 will have an oval race this year

Imo that can be cool!
But will they have to lift in the corners or is the hp to low and can they run full-throttle for the full lap (which would be lame imo)?