Montoya is overrated

killer bird · 20 Mar 2006, 14:18 (Ref:1554280)

Ron Dennis had signed the wrong man to partner Kimi, or rather, Ron Dennis purposely signed a poor driver to be a no.2.

Montoya had done nothing since day one he joined McLaren, he is totally mediocre. And he can't overtake. What a bad performance.

Talking about future champ,...humbug

SetikX · 20 Mar 2006, 14:50 (Ref:1554623)

You joined this forum to post drivel? IF you truly to believe what you wrote in that post - can you expand? What do you mean PURPOSELY? So Ron sacrificed last years WCC on purpose?

Mr V · 20 Mar 2006, 14:53 (Ref:1554625)

yawn.

killer bird · 20 Mar 2006, 15:01 (Ref:1554631)

Quote:

Originally Posted by SetikX

You joined this forum to post drivel? IF you truly to believe what you wrote in that post - can you expand? What do you mean PURPOSELY? So Ron sacrificed last years WCC on purpose?

Montoya started in 6th in Bahrain while Kimi started last, but Kimi ended infront of Montoya.

Montoya started 5th, or 4th in Sepang, while Massa started last, while MS started in 14th, both of these sick Ferraris came within 4 seconds of Montoya.

Enough said????

And JPM helped Mclaren lose the constructors title last year.

Mr V · 20 Mar 2006, 15:03 (Ref:1554632)

Flame bait i'm afraid.

avsfan733 · 20 Mar 2006, 15:07 (Ref:1554635)

I honestly believe that Mr Montoya could drive a Formula one chassis from any manufacturer faster in his sleep than I could on my best day. Therefore I find it hard to agree with your analysis of him as mediocre.

Montoya did very very well in CART in the US, he did quite well at Williams, and obviously he hasn't done quite as well at McLaren. HOWEVER, the same has basically happened with Fisichella. He has been an almost non factor the last year but not by his own fault. Everyone attributes it to 'bad luck' well consider the luck of Kimi last year in *almost* winning the championship. if thats the McLarens Baseline the fact that Montoya hasn't been killed in an engine explosion seems to be a more relevant discussion.

I honestly though don't know why I typed this out because I can only agree with SetikX and Mr. V on your approach to presenting your opinion

steve_r · 20 Mar 2006, 15:13 (Ref:1554642)

Quote:

Originally Posted by killer bird

Montoya started in 6th in Bahrain while Kimi started last, but Kimi ended infront of Montoya.

Montoya started 5th, or 4th in Sepang, while Massa started last, while MS started in 14th, both of these sick Ferraris came within 4 seconds of Montoya.

Enough said????

And JPM helped Mclaren lose the constructors title last year.

Did you not read about his engine problems in Bahrain?

Did you not read about his race in Sepang? He could not catch Button, and wisely brought the car home rather than risking his engine.

I would say that Mercedes glass engines cost McLaren the WCC last year.

ECW Dan Selby · 20 Mar 2006, 15:14 (Ref:1554645)

I must admit, i've found JPM a little overrated in Formula 1, and I do generally doubt his ability to be a title contender. As much as he is a pleasure to watch, I just don't think he's a World Champ. I don't think he's in the same bracket as his team mate. Although, saying this, he drove a storm in the latter of '05 which did make me give a 2nd glance.

I'll make up my mind at the end of the year though, thanks

Selby

Inigo Montoya · 20 Mar 2006, 15:23 (Ref:1554652)

Welcome to the forum killer bird

I think you'll find that around here, threads that bash a particular driver are not very well received. This does not mean that we cannot discuss a driver's ability, as long as there is some point to it.

312T4 · 20 Mar 2006, 15:42 (Ref:1554983)

No surprise, he's still have to wake up from the winter.
At the moment he is nearly useless to Mclaren.

mbathshah · 20 Mar 2006, 15:46 (Ref:1554987)

Although I can't agree totally with "Killer Bird" I have some sympathy with her views. JPM has been quite poor against Kimi and I do think his ability as a racing driver have been overrated. He makes too many mistakes and can't quite see him as WDC material. Reminds me a little of Rubens who seemingly couldn't brake with his left foot and now can't drive without traction control. Leaves you to wonder sometimes!

Jukebox · 20 Mar 2006, 15:50 (Ref:1554993)

What happened to the once hard charging Montoya and always trying to make it difficult for Michael while on track?

He's now too relaxed and not giving extra effort and concentration

Mr V · 20 Mar 2006, 15:59 (Ref:1554996)

Well, put it this way, had he not overtaken Kimi going into turn 4, maybe Klien would have tangled with JPM and not Kimi, just a thought.

Jukebox · 20 Mar 2006, 16:09 (Ref:1555001)

Thank you for reminding me that he had overtaken someone lately....seriously he's quite transparent nowadays isn't it.

shiny side up! · 20 Mar 2006, 16:13 (Ref:1555003)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr V

Well, put it this way, had he not overtaken Kimi going into turn 4, maybe Klien would have tangled with JPM and not Kimi, just a thought.

We'll have no logic here! This is purely a thread for opinion! Stop this instant!

Honestly, there are no 'poor' drivers in F1. There may be a few that some don't view as F1 caliber, but they are all fairly accomplished or they wouldn't have Superliscences and they wouldn't be allowed on the track for fear of safety.

In any case, Montoya is hardly at the bottom of the talent pole in F1. He might not have Kimi's measure, may not have the special ability that would get him a WDC, but that doesn't make him "poor" or "mediocre".

Jukebox · 20 Mar 2006, 16:20 (Ref:1555008)

I think you should have quoted my reply instead of V..shiny side up. As V is a fan of Montoya and for the record, i'm not saying Montoya is not of an F1 calibre, but simply saying that his performance was not like he used to be when nhe jumped from CART to F1 in his 1st and 2nd season

BootsOntheSide · 20 Mar 2006, 16:22 (Ref:1555011)

JPM was a match for Kimi in the second half of last season, despite the team naturally supporting Kimi more as he went for the title, and despite not being 100% fit (which was admittedly his own fault). As for this season, he was saddled with a dud engine in Bahrain, which he avoided destroying and managed to nurse to the finish, while in Sepang (perhaps still with engine problems) he qualified ahead of Kimi and was ahead of him when he went out, and maximised the car's result as it clearly wasn't as quick as the Renault or Honda.

Knowlesy · 20 Mar 2006, 16:41 (Ref:1555024)

Interesting opinions here.

He hasn't had a great start, but at the end of the day Montoya has brought the car home and scored solid points. Surely this is better than throwing it off the road attempting to overhaul the Renaults, which are quicker!

He appears to be struggling with the new car at present but this will get better as it did last year.

Kirk · 20 Mar 2006, 16:53 (Ref:1555030)

I don't think anyone disputes JPM's raw speed or natural ability. It is his inability to nurture that talent. The inability to always make rational decisions in the heat of battle and his tendency to let emotion take precedence during a race are his downfalls, exacerbated by his refusal to accept any criticism or take any part of the blame whatsoever, when he blunders. Personally, I think Ron Dennis is at ropes end with that, as JPM at 30 is unlikely to change now.

Sodemo · 20 Mar 2006, 17:29 (Ref:1555053)

It has to be said, I haven't seen a blinding overtaking move by Montoya for a while, maybe since back in his BMW days, but perhaps that was why. For several seasons the BMW engine had stonking horsepower, arguably the most powerful in 2001, 2002 and 2003.

Good engine = good straight line speeds = good overtaking potential.

Knowlesy · 20 Mar 2006, 17:32 (Ref:1555055)

Well no, because he was always a good overtaker in other categories.

And his move on Alonso at Silverstone last year was a blinder.

Matski · 20 Mar 2006, 18:32 (Ref:1555103)

2003 he may well have won with one less engine failure.

Knowlesy · 20 Mar 2006, 18:45 (Ref:1555113)

I hate to go over what could have been....

But 2003 is one that got away I have to say. Had his car not failed at A1-Ring and Suzuka.....well, that was at least 18 points there...and the tyre protests....and Indy...sigh

But credit to Ferrari, their car was bulletproof all year.

Menelaos · 20 Mar 2006, 19:18 (Ref:1555140)

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve_r

I would say that Mercedes glass engines cost McLaren the WCC last year.

Although I do NOT think JPM is not a very good driver, still I have to partly agree to the opinion that if JPM was a little more careful last year as to avoid the stupid last lap incidents in two of the final races, McLaren would have won the WCC. Their engines SUCK and they lost Kimi the title, but JPM did not help a lot with the WCC either.

Marbot · 20 Mar 2006, 20:12 (Ref:1555182)

So long as they don't let him play tennis (on a motorcycle) i think JPM will do just fine.I think he will be glad to get an engine change.He's as good as anyone out there IMO.

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