Trulli Vs Fisi?

[ralf fan]

Whos the better driver? Renault have chosen Fisi over Trulli... but based on the season Jarno has had was the best decision?

[Kicking-back]

Trulli is the better of the two in qualifying.

They're relatively equal in racing.

Both lack consistency.

Much of a muchness, really.

[garcon]

Dare I suggest that there were factors beyond qualities as a driver that influenced Trulli's departure from Renault??

I think Fisi will do fine - probably as well as Trulli has this year. There are many who believe Fisi is better than he's been able to show so far in his career - if they're right then it'll look a good move for Renault this time next year.

[jetsetter]

There's not much between the two, i think that Fisi will do the exact job that Trulli has done for the team over the last couple of years.

[spider]

I'd have Fisi in my team over Trulli. I honestly can never see Trulli consistently fighting for victories, while Fisi has beaten every team-mate he's had in F1 - 9 seasons of it. He's got the chance to prove me right, but I'm confident he'll be a great help to Fernando's career and both will be more of an ultimate force than Jarno and Fernando.

[Red]

Renault have chosen Fisi over Trulli

Hmm, I do remember a couple of years back when Renauls have chosen Trulli over Fissi. This is kinda ironic.

[touringcarnut]

Red hits the nail on the head there. Both good drivers of about equal ability.

[Kicking-back]

It's more the case that Trulli has chosen Toyota over Renault!

Thus Renault have had to turn to Fisichella.

[Red]

This just does not compute. Sorry, I'm a bit simple, but if I dump someone I don't go later to ask him back, and if someone dumped me earlier, then comes back to me, I surely.... hmm.... hmnmm..... I'll make him pay dearly

[BootsOntheSide]

On this season's evidence, both are at least equal to Alonso at present. Jarno has been much more consistant than ever on raceday, and always looked more likely to bring a win to Renault. Giancarlo has beenfitted from some smart heavy-fuel runs, but his performance in a midfield car against a tough team-mate has been very impressive.

Over the course of his career, Giancarlo looks the better driver, but maybe Trulli's confidence has been bolstered enough by this year to make him a more complete driver.

[jhansen]

Not only did Renault come back to hire Fisi, they had to buy him out of his present Sauber contract. Strange indeed. I also find them to be very similar drivers. The only factor I'm not sure about is car development potential. Would Fisi edge out Trulli in this department? I tend to agree that this may be more of a fact that Trulli left Renault.

[Led ZeppF1]

I am not sure what that actually happen. Did Renault have chosen Fisi over Trulli, or Renault couldn't comply with Trulli's salary demand, and Trulli chosen Toyota over Renault.

[Teretonga]

Faure said Renault did not have to pay anything to sauber to get fisi to drive for them... yrt elsewhere I read that $1.5 mil was the price.
I think things weren't that gret even after Monaco (Flav's comment that it wasn't definite that Trulli would stay) and after France it was all the excuse that was needed. Toyota jumped at an approach after ralfs USGP accident and that was it.

[Mr V]

According to ITV, Trulli and Flavour Flav aren't talking to one another anymore, so it's proberbly a bit of FF wants to get rid of Trulli, plus Trulli wants to leave.

[Led ZeppF1]

Yup. In his interviews on La Gazzetta dello Sport, Truli said that with Flavio there's no need to talk anymore. He and Flavio have nothing left to say to each other.

[climb]

Surely Trulli's relationships with Falv have been fatal to his permanance at Renault.
About Fisi to replace him, I'm a bit disappointed basically for two reasons.
1) it's a déjÃ*-vu: many a time one has replaced the other, and it's the 2nd time for Fisi at renault.
2) renault apparently is a good team who struggles in the attempt to become a leading one: albeit being the 2nd now, it doesn't semm able to do like Macs or FW, that are having a bad year, but are ususlly able to get bacj to the top. Frankly I would have been way hapier to see an italian driver like Fisi in an english prime team.

[Schummy]

Trulli is a very fast "one-lapper", Fisi is not particularly fast in this area (although he is fast anyway).

Where Fisi is above Trulli is in getting good final positions, it is related to an abstract thing usually described as "racecraft". He maintains pace for the whole race, he knows how defend, etc. Anyway, it is difficult to pinpoint exactly what Jarno does bad and what Giancarlo does well in races, but results tell the story.

If you see the numbers about those two, it can be seen JT has better perfomance in qualifying but Fisi has more podiums. They were teammates years ago, but is not safe to do conclusions about it because time has gone by and probably they are not the same than then.

One thing is unknown: how well Fisi will perform in a team with podium opportunities in every GP? Briatore and Faure look to be harsh men, how Fisi will behave in that high pressure situation?

I find interesting the reasons for the change told by Briatore and Faure: Alonso and Trulli were too friendly and not competitive between them. Harsh people, who thinks drivers are gladiators with no rights to behave well with his team mate. Maybe they are right, but I do hope they are wrong.

As a consequence, I hope Ralf and Trulli do well next year in Toyota. Moreover it would be good for F1 having another team in podium fights.

[BootsOntheSide]

Originally posted by Schummy

I find interesting the reasons for the change told by Briatore and Faure: Alonso and Trulli were too friendly and not competitive between them. Harsh people, who thinks drivers are gladiators with no rights to behave well with his team mate. Maybe they are right, but I do hope they are wrong.

This has to be one of the least logical arguments I've ever seen. Michael and Rubens work together, for each other's benefit and for the good of the team, and maximise their results, just as Mika and David did. Compare this to the shamblea at Williams when Ralf and JPM fail to get on. Renault have had by far their best season yet, with both drivers contributing lots of points - doesn't that tell them something.

This is all a cover-up anyway - I'm pretty sure Trulli's been booted out for beating Flavio's golden boy, and potentially endangering Alonso's (and thus Flavio's) earning potential. I can see Flavio leaving Rneault within a year and living off the income from Ferndando and Mark, really selling them down the river.

[MichaelH]

I think Fisi is much better. Trulli's one of my favourite drivers, I think he's awesomely quick, but Fisi has something extra. To those saying Fisi's not fast over a single lap...what planet are you on? He has outqualified every team-mate he has ever had in 9 seasons of F1 comfortably, including Ralf Schumacher, Alex Wurz and Jenson Button.

Plus, his lap at Montreal, given the fuel load, was impossibly fast. The team were stunned. That's the kind of thing for me that marks Fisi out as one of the most talented F1 dtivers in recent history. A flawed genius, but a genius.

Haven't got a bad word to say about Trulli, he's just not in Fisi's class.

[Schummy]

I agree Fisi is fast in qualifying. But I think he is not so brilliant as some drivers we have known.

His team mates were Lamy, Ralf, Wurz, Button, Sato, Firman and now Massa. Only Ralf, Button, Sato and maybe Massa (it is too soon to know) are worthy to compare with. Since, sadly, GF has been in low teams, he often has met drivers in their first years in F1: Ralf and Sato were in their very first season, not very meaningful to compare. Button were in his 2nd season.

IMO, his best team mates were Ralf (he was in first year but GF was in only his 2nd year) and Button (2nd year, enough to have some experience and less excuses). Fisi did a good job "with" them, but we have to admit they were in their first steps in F1. He beated RS 10-7 (thus they were essentially equals), and JB 13-4 (a very good result for GF).

He had some diffculties with Wurtz in 1998. GF beated AW in qualifies by 10-6 (not much, Alex was essentially in his rookie year), and Fisi *was beated* in points 17-16 by Wurtz (well, they were virtually tied).

Massa is now in his second year, while Fisi is already massively experienced. We don't know if Massa is very quick or not because we lack the perspective of a longer career, but this season the score in qualifying is 7-5 for Fisi, i.e. he is having difficulties with the semi-rookie Massa.

In short, GF has had 7 team mates (including Massa), only Ralf and Button are meaningful comparisons and beated both of them... but against the rookie Ralf it was practically a tie. With Massa he is having some difficulties this season.

He is a fast driver in qualify, but I don't think he is astoundingly fast in Saturdays. What I think is he is even better in races, he has probably more podiums that his cars deserved.

I'm looking for next season with/against Alonso, already a star, and already experienced. I think it will be an interesting clash, if someone is clearly beated it will be very damaging for his status as one-of-the-best in F1. My forecast: Alonso will have the upper hand, but I don't know the amount of difference between them. And I can be easily wrong!

[MichaelH]

I see what you're saying, but I don't agree 10-7 and 10-6 are 'virtually equal'. Well, they're not are they? You outqualify your team mate (in both cases team-mates who entered the season expected to beat him) 10 times in a season, you've done a stunning job. And the points situation wasn't black and white, Fisi had a few more off-days than Wurz, but when he was on it he was considerably faster all weekend, he just blew Wurz into the weeds. Monaco, Canada, Spa (on his way to a certain podium, possibly a win, before he was taken out by a Minardi I think). There's no doubt Fisi was the faster, he came second twice and started three times on the front row while Wurz started once in third and never made the podium.

Plus, then there was 99. And 2000. Fisi made Wurz look crap in both the races and in qualifying.

And how about a direct comparison....

2001
J Button 4:13 G Fisichella

2002
J Button 7:9 J Trulli

Not to mention that Button lost 8:2 on points against Fisi and then beat Trulli 13:9 the next season.

I'm not having a go, but there are direct comparisons, and they do considerably favour Fisi, even in qualifying, supposedly Jarno's forte.

[Kicking-back]

That assumes Button in 2001 was the same as Button in 2002.

He was improving all the time, as he gained experience.

[BootsOntheSide]

The gaps in performance were arguably wicer than that though, ebcause Button lost backing within the team once he signed for BAR, and his late-season performance dropped off. However, it is true that, thanks to extra experience and a more serious approach, Button was a tougher opponent in 2002.

[Dixie Flatline]

Trulli has fallen asleep twice this year at critical times of the races and lost valuable constructors points for Renault. He's been criticised for it, and even though he's the only driver other than TGF to win a race this season, it makes Flavio's decision to ease him out easier to make, particularly when Trulli reputedly asked for more money than Renault was willing to pay him.

Fisichella has used a race strategy which seems to make the best use out of the Sauber and scored quite a few points.

[Schummy]

Originally posted by MichaelH
I see what you're saying, but I don't agree 10-7 and 10-6 are 'virtually equal'. Well, they're not are they? You outqualify your team mate (in both cases team-mates who entered the season expected to beat him) 10 times in a season, you've done a stunning job.

Do you want to prove a perfectly balanced coin gives more heads than tails, or reverse? Throw it 16 or 17 times, and repeat it several times, you will get 10 heads or 10 tails with relative easy. With 16 races/coins, even if they are exactly equal, you will get, by luck, 10 or more "wins" for one of them 45% of time. And 10-7 is even less decisive.

Just for the sake of curiosity, if one want to be reasonably "sure" that a score is not by fluke, one has to get at very least 12-4 (7.8% to get it by chance) but better 13-3 (2.2% by chance). Against apparent intuition, scores of one driver against other have to be pretty crushing to be significant.