LMP1 Program on a Shoestring

[Tim Northcutt]

Before I go into my breakdowns on how this can be done, a few words of explanation...

I looked at many possibilities for how one could race cost-effectively and -- even on a shoestring -- and still be fairly competitive in the LMP1 category...maybe not against the VAG stable, but who is???

My point...you can compete and be in the ballpark (or at least on-pace) and do it for a lot less than you might think.....

I am assuming that you do have the shop and the tools from other racing experiences..

My inspiration for this was Taurus Sports and what they did with the Lola B2k/10 chassis this year....

(BTW...I couldn't find any on the net for sale, but I feel this chassis would be in the "Step Above the Thin Shoestring" level that I will outline in this specific post...in other words, it'll cost you at least $200,000 to get one or to run it with the "long tail" changes Taurus made via Lola in 2003)

But I'm looking at cheaper engines for my power than a Judd lease, and I'm looking a chassis that I can get for (or Under) under $200,000....

** If I would have considered this in late August or early September, American Spirit Racing advertisted the "Deal of the Century" for a prototype -- their R&S Mk IIIC "Race Ready with spare parts" for $200,000 if you made a significant deposit on it and picked it up with the balance to be paid following the Petit Le Mans race in Atlanta...

It would have made my choice a "No Brainer"....

However, since opportunity knocks only once in a very great while, here is my:

"Thin Shoestring but Still Can Be Competitive" Scenario, which is as follows

The chassis that you would run will be a used chassis....Cost range of $120,000-$200,000....

Total Budget range for a Full ALMS Season: $1.5 Million-$1.75 Million

Chassis available:

Lola B98/10 -- too many cooling problems, but $165,000 with a 6.0L
Ford or Chevy engine in it...race ready....this is the
"Bare Bones' route...and I think you'd be a backmarker
Big Time...
R&S MKIIIA's -- Range of Choices, but I picked "One" specific route
It's outdated, but a good, dependable chassis that still
ran OK in ALMS in 2002...and my option has aero changes
that have apparently been homologated (according to the
ad listing the car) that look like a mix between the
Rafanelli and the R&M changes....
Kudzu DLY -- MIght have to do some diffuser work on it, but the aero
elements of this chassis & its evolution would make it a
cheap and inexpensive option....the adaptation of a 6.0L
engine could be a problem...

This is the breakdown:

R&S MkIIIA w/parts, gearboxes & homologated aero changes to make it a long-tail...originally the chassis that Solution F bought in late 1990s

Price: $160,000 with all listed above..

Two Mopar 6.0L V-8 Sprinter engines tuned for endurance racing...need
a back-up engine and would rotate them every other race to get re-build time....

Price: $40,000 each...$80,000 total

Re-Build Parts for upkeep of Mopars: $50,000

Drivers: Two that would be allocated a total of $215,000 based on experience...I have no idea what that would buy me, but for 6 figures each (if they are equal), should at least buy some experience and reasonable competency

Team & Crew:

Five Full-Time Technician/Pro Grade Personnel: Total cost $325,000
Team Manager
Chief Mechanic
Team Engineer
Asst. Chief Mechanic
Mechanic
Four Part-Time Personnel: Total Cost: $100,000
Transporter Driver (& pit crew fireman)
4 Pit Crew members as part-time for race weeks & testing...

Transporter w/ 48' trailer equipped with kitchen, 2 fridges, small longe with A/C, work shop with parts washer & racks, and storage bins below plus tractor.
Cost: $70,000 (it's on the net...no kidding...dirt cheap!)
I included this, because this type of rig will save money on the road for feeding the team, giving drivers a place to rest, etc.

The Cost to Compete in a Nine-Season Schedule, including transport fuel, groceries, any housing for the team on the road, plus entry fees, race fuel, tires, paddock fees, etc.

$720,000 for the nine races....

averages $80,000 a race, but Sebring & Petit would cost a lot more...Laguna a little more, and the other 6 a lot less than the average....overall, it would work out....

Total Cost: $1.75 Million....

NOTES: you could do it for as little as $1.5 million by buying a Lola B98/10 with a Chevy V-8 "race ready" and spare parts for the car and engine $160,000, but you would be a backmarker...so why not spend the extra $250,000 to do it with an option that would have a chance to be competitive...

Now a Quick note on the "Step Up":

The Used chassis here would fall in the $200,000-$300,000 category...and go with the same engine program....

most competitive chassis would probably cost you in the middle to upper range of that...

These used options would include:

Courage C60
Dallara (Orecas at $300,000, Doran Lista in middle of range)
R&S MkIIIC's (the AmeriSuites car was a STEAL, and was listed at $225K
Dome
Lola B2k/10 (probably a little lower in the range)
Reynard (also probably lower range)

A Panoz (Maybe...big maybe)

With adaptation costs to fit the 6.0 L engine on all but the R&S and the Panoz...provided the manufacturer will homologate it...and retaining the other "Spartan" regimen outlined above:

About $2.0 Million or so to run ALMS....with added costs for parts, etc....


BIG NOTE:

Don't Even Think about Used Audis, Judd engine leases over a 9-10 race season (would cost hundreds of thousands of dollars), turbo power, a Cadillac chassis that they aren't going to sell you since their name is on it, etc...

Exploring that territory puts you at a minimum of 3 million and probably a lot more....

Remember, this is a "Cost-effective" approach...to get more competitors...and to buy a car that is cheaper than a DP Turd Box (over $300,000)to debunk the myth that ALMS is "so expensive"...

Those are way out of price ranges to make this "affordable" and if you're going to spend that kind of money, buy a 2004 specs car that will have a longer shelf life than the 2-3 years these used chassis will cost you....

FINAL NOTE:


For LMP2s, there are MANY cars (Lola B2K/40s, Lucchinis, etc) for CHEAP on the net...

Some (with engines) for as little as $75,000 and parts...the most expensive car I saw was for $110,000 with a Nissan 3.0L engine...

With some good tuning and mechancs, this category could come in for as low as $1.3 million to race the full season...but I'd have to crunch the numbers on it...

Now...


Your thoughts?????

[Fan]

Did you win the jackpot??

[jhansen]

Tim

A couple of questions before I post my idea. How did you arrive at the $720,000 cost for the ALMS schedule and what does it include? Are you ballparking the crew and personel costs or was their a source? And are you including tools, tires, various parts, day to day operating costs, fuel, etc? The reason I ask is that $1.5 to $1.7 mill is pretty astounding for an overall budget. Great work though. Now let me see what I can come up with.

[gttouring]

i really like the Mopar sprinters to starts good - reliable and mega powerful, R&S MKIIIA- how much for a MKIIIC 225K? especially with the revisions done to it via Robinson racing? http://www.mulsannescorner.com/mkiiic-6.html
i do like the Lola B2K/10 the old rafenelli car- but following a car that did well at LeMans and in the ALMS we would whave to consider the Oreca Dallara over the R&S chassis,(although the R&S is easier to maintain as well i imagine.) before we get Louis the Shark and Billnchristy chiming in about running a DP program- lets run the list there...similar crew and transport costs, we still need to shell out 325,000 - granted its a new chassis and the motor, prepared should fall in about the same as the Mopar- so cost is somewhat equalized over the period of a season- of course we will hear that the DP rules are stable for a few years and our car will be competitive for an overall everyrace...Of course so will a well thought out Dallara Mopar 6.0 in the ALMS even for a few years, as nothing but VAG has thought of any real ground breaking tech, and the pushrod motor maybe be an older more pedestrian design but it goes! I love USAC Midgets,sprint cars and Silvercrown can you tell?)
so all thing being equal a well researched entry can be very LMP1 competitive in ALMS and LMES/LeMans
good work Tim.

Question: in running a DP program does the chassis and engine need to be serived by the builder or can it be done at a home shop? and only checked by TechInspection at season or race end? this would (if it is the case) seriously make DP a very great idea for endurance racing- making it home grown-corn fed and hand spanked grassroots racing

[cybersdorf]

Originally posted by gttouring
especially with the revisions done to it via Robinson racing?

oops - not ACO-legal. That'swhy you don't see it in ALMS.

[Fieldgate]

You could do Sebring, LMES, & the 24hr tests/practice/race (if invited) for less than you mention (hopefully).

[Tim Northcutt]

My $720,000 covers fluids, fuel, parts that need regular replacing like shocks, brake pads, engine seals, tires, etc...the things it would cost you on a day-to-day basis as viewed from preparing for each race as an ovarll picture...

Personally, I think that the average of $80,000 per race would be very high, and thus some of that capital would go toward paying for the lights and the HVAC costs at the shop, etc....the general costs of doing business...

I also noted that this scenario is not a "start from scratch" outline...you've got a shop (or a space to work) and the tools...I would think it would be rare for someone to go from "casual observer or fan of racing" to team owner and jump right into a high-profile series like ALMS....

However, my best guestimate would be a start-up cost with the shop and the tools, etc., of about $300,000 at a minimum....but you could buy out certain items of Stefan Johannson's, since his CART team has ceased operations, for a cheaper cost.....and find them on the net for cheaper as well, for about that cost...

The personnel costs would be split out based on experience...your three top guys (Manager, Chief Mechanic & Engineer) would be the biggest portion of the 325,000, with the two other mechanics making much less, based on experience....

I think you could do it for that...granted, you wouldn't be hiring George Bignotti for that, but you'd have three competent people as your "Key Three" with two younger wrenches there to get paid a good salary and to learn from more experienced leaders....

It's a fairly good ballpark based on a guy I know who is a Team manager for an IRL team....

NOTE: That same guy from IRL ran a two car program in 2003 for
$4 million, and that is with an engine lease program and required new chassis for the series.....

This One-Car effort as outlined is very do-able for $1.75 million...some areas may be a little high, but I think not....and if they are, you'll have $$$ to spend on other parts of the program....

Note to GTTouring...

That price for the American Spirit Racing R&S MkIIIC was the "Deal of the Century"....I guess they wanted to move the chassis quickly so they could buy the two Lola B2k/40s that they will campaign in 2004 as LMP2s....

Based on prices I was seeing on the net for others, like a 2002 GARRA R&S MkIIIA with a 6.0 L Chevy (and no rear diffuser -- not allowed last year in GARRA) for $190,000, as an example, my guess is that the "Step Up" chassis options would probably run you about $250,000 or so and up in reality....that R&S deal was a rare deal indeed...

BTW....here is a pic of the R&S I would buy for $160,000...the aero changes are fairly similar to the Rafanelli or the R&M changes to this same chassis...

[Tim Northcutt]

The Robinson R&S MkIIIC is not homologated....

The R&S MkIIIA I have chosen, with the long tail & aero revisions (according to the ad) is homologated....so I wouldn't have to mess with permissions, re-crash-testing, etc....

And Yes...LMES would certainly be a cheaper route due to less races...

Which I believe makes my case even stronger....You could probably even take that "Step Up" in the chassis to get an ORECA Dallara, spend a little more for your drivers, and then campaign it in LMES for the $1.75 million and get even more "Bang for the Buck"....

But the early returns seem t be showing that European teams, racers, etc., are going to jump into the fray and race LMES next year....and there have been concerns expressed in this forum about "What will happen to ALMS???"

After seeing what Taurus did with an older chassis and what seemed to be less $$$ than other well-heeled peers, I started looking at this...

and was pretty surprised by the results...

[billnchristy]

I think your money laid out for crew and drivers is actually a little high. I would love to come work for you...no expirience with race cars but I can fix a Nuclear reactor...gotta be a smiliarity somewhere in there!!

From www.dysonracing.com:
(they have 3 for sale)
Riley and Scott Mk3a Chassis 018
-- 8 Overall Victories, including the 2002 Watkins Glen Six Hours

-- Finished Fourth Overall at 2002 12 Hours of Sebring

-- Built new for the 2001 season

--Updated to 2003 ALMS rules, eligible for Vintage for 2003

-- Competed in 2001 Grand-Am, carrying James Weaver to Championship

-- Available with 5.5 or 6.0 liter LBP Ford engines, EFI dash and data acquisition.

-- Generous Spares Package, extensive competition history

Asking $150,000 or best offer for complete turnkey car. Serious inquiries only to Chris Dyson at 845.473.0606

[Tim Northcutt]

The question would be who would do the changes to give you the aero improvements to the chassis that you would buy from Dyson???

Homologation papers, as I understand them, are not a retroactive thing....thus I couldn't buy an MkIIIA, make my own "mimic" of the changes to the chassis I pictured above, and have them pass through scrutineering...

If you compare what I pictured above, or the Rafanelli car on Mike's site, then compare it with any other MkIIIA, you'll notice significant aero differences that I would think would be a great asset to the effort and make an older chassis (that's good now) even more likely to be competitive...

But those prices for turn-key cars is a great price!!!!

On the crews and the drivers....I would either get really good people, or I could save money on personnel that could go into other areas of the program to make the car and our effort even better...

But the drivers and at least the three top team guys are criticla to one's success...that's money well-spent in my book...

[billnchristy]

I would think the Dyson cars would be good to go. It says theyre good to 2003 ALMS specs.

[Tim Northcutt]

I know that they are good for ALMS specs....and "as is" they would be good to go...

I just think that the aero changes that the Dyson cars do not have on their bodywork would make the car even better....

Kinda like the Lola B2k/10 that Taurus ran last season would have been fine in its original form, but they made aero changes with Lola's blessing that made it even more competitive....

Thanks again for the post and the info on the Dyson cars....that is agood deal, especially for cars with a solid pedigree on the track...

[cybersdorf]

Do the right thing, buy a Norma M2000!! Just as quick as a Mk.III but prettier.

[Tim Northcutt]

Only if the Norma has a rocket stuffed up its butt....



For North American type circuits, the R&S MkIIIA was a great and fairly inexpensive prototype that had a great record for wins during its "extended" lifetime...with may teams campainging it long past it's life expectancy as a racing chassis...especially in today's technology-driven world...especially in the field of aero engineering...

Besides...I like the MkIIIC much, much better, but the MkIIIA isn't an ugly duckling in my eyes anyway...

[cybersdorf]

The more it wins, the prettier it gets. From this point of view the Mk.III is ravishingly beautiful. When I first saw one, I was reminded of a bathtub. But anyway. I think it's just a little past its sell-by date now. Just as the 333SP. Let them rest.

How many B98s are on the market nowadays? They seem to have completely dropped off the radar.

[pirenzo]

Bloody hell Tim, you sure do your research!

I haven't read anything yet BTW, i'm just looking at the sheer quantity of words in those posts

[pirenzo]

Originally posted by Tim Northcutt
with kitchen, 2 fridges

For the beer right? (you know if you go the Nasamax route you have an excuse for a third fridge)

Two Mopar 6.0L V-8 Sprinter engines tuned for endurance racing...need
a back-up engine and would rotate them every other race to get re-build time....

I'm not keen on the Mopar motors.

They may be cheap, but they're a waste of space if you ask me. V8, 6.0L yes, but longer than a Judd GV4, and porducing less power. I reckon you'd want a lighter weight engine for a chance at competitiveness, and i reckon ol' Don might have some Zytek V8's from the 07 hanging about, plus spares and maybe even gearboxes that he'd love to be rid of.

[gttouring]

The Mopar out torques the Judd V10 by a lot, and it performed well against the VAG monsters 4th i believe, i still give stock to mopar, so stout, it may be large, but bombproof-I bet you could crank up the power closer to the Sprint car 850hp if you want.
Tim and I will go set up the team call you in for consultant work if the Mopars stink.
the question i have is sure the R&S is cheap but can it still work well versus the newer crop of things and all that VAG stuff rolling around?, and the Lola? how would the dallara fair? and any chance of rustling up a Dome?

[Tim Northcutt]

Nice thought, Pirenzo...but I thought one of the complaints they had about the Zytek engine was that was a little down on power....

To Cybersdorf:

I found at least 3 of the Lola B98/10s two were well under the $200,000 mark and the other was way overpriced $245,000 with a Chevy engine...

God...I surfed so many sites with cars for sale I can't even remember which ones they were on...

[jhansen]

I'm still thinking on some possible options, but I do have a suggestion since its being discussed. The Mopar engines were based on the sprint car engines that are popular here in America (as cited here). But, if you go Chevy based, then the budget shrinks slightly and the availability of parts probably more than doubles. The Chevy smallblock rules the sprint car ranks and the parts and number of builders is nearly boundless.

[gttouring]

now do you suppose these have a future? can they be updated or is it too expensive? from
http://www.race-cars.com/carsales/msr.htm
2000 Dallara Euroc Sports Racers Rollers, 2 available
These 2 cars are ready for you to add the powerplant of your choice. Spares are available as well as engine packages. 50000 assembled 30000 kit Pounds
Buy both in a kit, and as they are built to accept V8's in front we can fit what ever. (what 120,000 for both? they have FIA crashtest certification so that won't be an issue will it?)
I would rather go midengined in a sports racer, no matter how cool the Panoz and these things look.

[Tim Northcutt]

You could go with a number of options on the sprinter engines, and I agree that there are many good builders to choose from...

I looked at many different approaches....

for a builder, I'd really like to have Ed Pink build my engines,because he has done it all...Indy Cars, J.J. Yeley's sprinteres last season, and in the 1980s, he tuned privateer Porche 962s with turbos for endurance racing, so he understands that side of engine tuning to get power, yet still last...

But I think he is exclusively a Ford builder for sprinteres...don't know that for sure, but I believe it to be the case...

The Chevy 6.0L engines that ran in Grand Am were built by a pretty reputable company for a low cost, but their name escapes me....

It begins with an "H"....

But for Chevy power in this form of racing, you couldn't make the final choice without talking to Pratt & Miller...

My Mopar builder would be Stanton Racing Engines....they build a lot of the WoO sprinter engines...

Whichever maker or eninge you went with, I'm sure that they would go like stink....

On the Chassis...

One thing to note would be that the Chrysler LMP was a Dallara, so they have the cowling that would fit over that Mopar engine...I don't know if Dome, or Courage, as examples, have a cowling that would cover a 6.0L engine....

It wouldn't be cheap to have them make one because they would have to design the changes, make molds, etc. to create it in order to have it homologated...that kind of work (with the molds) is easily in 5 figures and possibly six to do it....

I think that the revised "long-tail" MkIIIA would be sufficient, and whatever it lacked, the Mopar's horses would help to make up the difference...

[gttouring]

wouldn't you need to homologate the 'long-tail?'

[gsmith2424]

I think that the long tail MKIII-A is actually called the MKIII-B but not much was know about this car because it was mainly sold in Europe.

[dretceterini]

If I were a sponsor with 2 million to spend, I could think of far more effective places to spend my money than sportscar racing. THAT is the big problem...