[Official] Belgian Grand Prix 2016: Grand Prix Weekend Thread

[Born Racer]

‘Spa’, as it is commonly shortened to, despite being much closer to the town of Francorchamps, is set in the Ardennes Forest and its first Grand Prix was held in 1924. Until 1970, it was run on a fearsome, much longer incarnation of the circuit (14.9km at its maximum length) than the contemporary one, which at 7km, is still the longest. It used to consist of many fast public roads which stretched down to the villages of Malmedy and Stavelot before eventually rejoining what we have today and had monster fast straights. The notorious Masta Kink straddled two straights between Malmedy and Stavelot.

In 2016, Spa still features many glorious corners which follow the natural order of the land. It is a track that delights in having Formula 1 cars driven on it. Because of the topography, the majority of the corners just feel right, like that is the way the track is supposed to go. It doesn’t feel designed by anyone but by Spa-Francorchamps itself. This sense of a natural track is compounded by the forces of nature. The element of the weather can add a total twist in the ark of the race by means of rain showers which come out of the blue. The microclimate of this part of the Ardennes means that one moment it is sunny and the next, ominous clouds have swept in and they are pouring, sometimes in only one area. A vital decision to pit or to not pit on a seven-kilometre layout can turn a race here on its head.

Turns here are not merely numbers, but have names, evocative ones, such that they call to mind images of the cars and drivers taking on the challenge.
Turn 1 is La Source. A tricky hairpin, it opens quite wide on the exit and allows for plenty of jostling on the opening lap (and DRS Detection Zone 1 on later ones) as the drivers set themselves up for Turns 2 to 4, the Eau-Rouge – Raidillon combination. Eau Rouge is actually the brief left at the bottom of the hill before the slight right, Raidillon, which climbs to the top and goes further than the eye can see from when you are entering the curve. There is a left as the drivers go over the brow and try to tame the car, gently balancing out any danger and keeping forward motion for the Kemmel Straight. These corners are spectacular to watch in person, where the steepness becomes apparent in a way that is not always the case on television.

The Kemmel Straight is the longest one and features DRS Activation Zone 1. It leads drivers to the magnificent right-left-right Les Combes complex (Turns 5 to 7). Whilst Eau Rouge and Raidillon are a pure thrill, it is these corners that begin to remind you that much of the joy of this track is in just how good the more conventional corners are. It’s a right-left chicane followed by ninety-right with a less angled entry and looks superb to drive. This is where the drivers will really be starting to enjoy the flow. Overtaking opportunities also abound into Turn 5.

The drivers plunge downhill into Bruxelles, which is Turn 8. Perhaps because of the relatively short distance between Les Combes and Bruxelles, it somehow invites drivers to dare to brake late, but it’s a risky thing, easy to put a wheel off and in any event, not so easy to gather traction on the exit.
A quick left takes the drivers 90 degrees through Turn 9 before they approach Pouhon (Turns 10 and 11). A relentless left-hander, this is many drivers’ favourite section. Whereas Raidillon is easier to take flat than it once was, Pouhon is more of a case of fine throttle feathering, a lift usually necessary. The track is so fun by this point that it is difficult for drivers to want to remove any speed, instead seeking to be really fast and ready to barrel through Turn 12 and then slow it down a bit more for 13, Campus.

Turn 14 is Stavelot, a right-hander which sets up the drivers for 15, The Courbe Paul-Frère. It’s crucial to carry as much as speed as possible through here, because they’re now not braking again until the final corners. The left-hand sweeper of Blanchimont (Turn 16) is followed by a slightly tighter one at 17.

Hard braking is called for into the right-left Bus Stop Chicane (Turns 18 and 19), just before which there is the second DRS Detection Zone (activation is on the start-finish straight). It is easy to fumble it through here.

Of the 2016 field, freshly re-signed Ferrari driver Kimi Raikkonen has the best winning record here with four victories (one fifth of his total number of wins) and one other podium. Raikkonen’s team-mate Vettel and championship leader Lewis Hamilton have taken the spoils twice and of the other drivers and in chronological order, Massa, Button and Ricciardo have all won once.

It was Massa who took the win after the rather controversial finish to the 2008 race, which staged an epic tussle between Hamilton and Raikkonen when the rain began to fall. The race had not been particularly exciting until that point, but their scrap for victory was enthralling. Lewis was given a post-race penalty which dropped him down the order when after having been edged to the limit of the track at the Bus Stop, he drove over the run-off on the inside and passed Kimi before immediately ceding the place. Because he then passed again into La Source, he was deemed to have gained an unfair advantage in his pass (having gained in the Bus Stop).

1998 was also a hugely rain-affected race, a deluge and soaked track causing an enormous pile-up out of La Source which eliminated many cars and caused a red flag. Michael Schumacher was dominating the re-started race when he drove into the back of David Coulthard, who had slowed but stayed on-line to let him lap him. Damon Hill took his final win and Jordan’s first, with a one-two, Michael Schumacher’s brother Ralf following him home and Jean Alesi completing the podium for Sauber.

Another relatively recent piece of drama was 2000, when Hakkinen, angered by Schumacher’s blocking in 2000, bided his time and used the lapped car of Ricardo Zonta on the Kemmel Straight in the middle of the track to send one down the inside of Schumacher forcing the Ferrari to go to the left while sandwiching the BAR.

Last year witnessed Vettel's tyre blowout on the Kemmel Straight, a third for Romain Grosjean in his Lotus and a Hamilton win. This year it will prove more difficult for the Englishman, as he has taken a grid penalty which will put him at the back of the grid, but with a 19-point championship lead and in great form, he will no doubt relish the challenge.

Esteban Ocon replaces Rio Haryanto at Manor. The battle between him and Pascal Wehrlein will be interesting to watch.

To join in our predictions contest on Ten-Tenths, go here: http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...06#post3667106

Our Fantasy F1 contest is here: http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=146625

Constructors’ championship standings: https://www.formula1.com/en/results.html/2016/team.html

Drivers’ championship standings: https://www.formula1.com/en/results....6/drivers.html

Belgian Grand Prix tyre selections: https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/h...selection.html

Circuit length: 7.004km
Number of laps: 44
Race distance: 308.052km
Dry weather tyre compounds: Supersoft, Soft and Medium

DRS Detection Zone 1: between Turn 1 and Turn 2 (La Source and Eau Rouge)
DRS Activation Zone 1: between Turn 4 and Turn 5 (on the Kemmel Straight before Les Combes)
DRS Detection Zone 2: just before Turn 18 (Bus Stop Chicane)
DRS Activation Zone 2: Start-finish straight
Speed Trap: Just after Turn 4 (Raidillon)

Lap Record: 1:47.263 (2009 – Sebastian Vettel – Red Bull-Renault)
First Grand Prix: 1925
First World Championship Grand Prix: 1950
First Grand Prix on current layout: 1983

[bjohnsonsmith]

Excellent intro as ever.

I usually look forward to Spa but last year was disappointing. I just hope this year's race is an improvement on last year's.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Apparently Hamilton will start the race at the back of the grid.

http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/125869

[canamman]

Of the current field , Kimi has 4 , Vettel and Hamilton
each have 2 wins at Spa. With Hamilton starting in the back,
I'd say this may be a good chance for a Ferrari win this weekend.
Well - at least on paper.

[chillibowl]

epic intro!

Originally Posted by Born Racer

It was Massa who took the win after the rather controversial finish to the 2008 race, which staged an epic tussle between Hamilton and Raikkonen when the rain began to fall. The race had not been particularly exciting until that point, but their scrap for victory was enthralling. Lewis was given a post-race penalty which dropped him down the order when after having been edged to the limit of the track at the Bus Stop, he drove over the run-off on the inside and passed Kimi before immediately ceding the place. Because he then passed again into La Source, he was deemed to have gained an unfair advantage in his pass (having gained in the Bus Stop).

in the current context of the debate over the use of run offs and track limits i wonder how those final few laps would be viewed by the forum today?

iirc, at the time i thought both KR and LH were well within their rights to use the run offs and in particular after LH cut the corner he did cede the place back but because he had used tarmac run off he didnt really give up any speed so was able to quickly retake the position back from KR.

im pretty sure if i went back to that thread i would have been one of the louder voices saying good use of the run off/fair play to LH....and now 8 years later i am of the opinion that this sort of behaviour is emblematic of a much bigger problem in F1.

a good reminder that even the most staunchly defended positions can and usually do change over time.

[Lancsbreaker]

Mercedes definitely using different tactics in Free Practice..........Red Bull looking promising, Vettel back to waving angrily at everyone..........and according to Chandhok, Eau Rouge isn't as much of a challenge these days and is easily on flat...........don't think it would be for me

[BSchneiderFan]

Looks like Lewis has decided to pick this race to go into damage control mode and is building up a pool of engines for the rest of the season. Sainz is saying Toro Rosso will suffer from a lack of power. Button not expecting the new Honda unit to make much difference. Should be Nico's to lose, unless Red Bull can follow up on their FP2 pace.

[chillibowl]

seems to make more sense to do it here rather than at Monza. i think the lead is 19 points and with a good recovery drive from the back he has a chance to hold onto some of that lead.

Originally Posted by Lancsbreaker

Vettel back to waving angrily at everyone...

[Mike Harte]

To spice up the off-track discussion a bit, I think that it is ridiculous that Hamilton has been given a 30 place grid penalty for this race, yet will only get a maximum of 21 places. And that is if he even attempts to go for pole, which I think is highly unlikely.

He will probably do the minimum number of qualifying laps to set a reasonable time in Q1, and then be able to save his tyres for the race. It makes a mockery of the rules system, where a team/driver can in some way benefit from an infringement.

The FIA, if they intend to retain the current system of grid penalties, should amend the rules so that any unused lost grid places are rolled over to the next race. Otherwise, more teams will be "bending" the sanctions in a similar way to Mercedes, artificially using more PU components than they actually need for that particular meeting.

[canamman]

Team McLaren got 105 grid spot penalty last year.

http://www.foxsports.com/motor/story...penalty-082115

[S griffin]

I love it when F1 comes to the best thing in the sport, Spa and the other drivers should be on the lookout for Hamilton. I just think that this is a great chance for Rosberg to get the momentum back in his own favour and the only one who is going to stop him from doing so is him

[bjohnsonsmith]

So Nico's on pole, followed by the RBs; congrats to Verstappen on his front row, followed by the Ferraris. The only thing missing is Hamilton.

It will be interesting to see if he can charge his way through the field. In the interview on C4, he said tyres were going to be the issue, as it is unusually hot at Spa and the tyres were blistering.

[TrapezeArtist]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

It makes a mockery of the rules system, where a team/driver can in some way benefit from an infringement.

It's hard to see how starting from the back of the grid is a "benefit". What Mercedes have done is to work within the rules to minimise the harm done by the penalty. Any sportsman in any sport would do the same.

The suggestion of carrying over grid place penalties to later races is exactly how the system was originally conceived, but the FIA then changed it to the present system. Presumably they found flaws in the original.

[TrapezeArtist]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

in the current context of the debate over the use of run offs and track limits i wonder how those final few laps would be viewed by the forum today?

iirc, at the time i thought both KR and LH were well within their rights to use the run offs and in particular after LH cut the corner he did cede the place back but because he had used tarmac run off he didnt really give up any speed so was able to quickly retake the position back from KR.

im pretty sure if i went back to that thread i would have been one of the louder voices saying good use of the run off/fair play to LH....and now 8 years later i am of the opinion that this sort of behaviour is emblematic of a much bigger problem in F1.

a good reminder that even the most staunchly defended positions can and usually do change over time.

I always though that LH was unfairly penalised back in 2008. He didn't use extra speed generated by going off-track to pass at La Source, because he had already slowed to less than KR's speed in order to let him pass.

The bigger and the flatter the kerbs are, the more track-limits become a problem. Watching qually today, most drivers were going to the edge of the red and yellow kerb at each corner. They are good enough to be able to do that. If the kerb wasn't there, they would drive to the edge of the black tarmac. QED. Instead we have these stupid track-limits rules that are enforced appallingly badly. Two drivers were penalised for going over the white line at Radillon, yet at least two drivers got away with no penalty for going over the white line between Pouhon and Stavelot.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by TrapezeArtist

It's hard to see how starting from the back of the grid is a "benefit". What Mercedes have done is to work within the rules to minimise the harm done by the penalty. Any sportsman in any sport would do the same.

The suggestion of carrying over grid place penalties to later races is exactly how the system was originally conceived, but the FIA then changed it to the present system. Presumably they found flaws in the original.

So as predicted, Hamilton cruised around in Q1 just keeping to the 107% time rule, and thus has benefited by saving his tyres for the race. Knowing that he would have to start at the back, come what may, he is possibly in a better state, tyre wise, for the race than the front runners, and that is most definitely a benefit as most teams believe that tyre degradation is going to be a major factor tomorrow afternoon.

[BSchneiderFan]

I'd still be surprised if Hamilton makes more than the lower reaches of the points.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by TrapezeArtist

I always though that LH was unfairly penalised back in 2008. He didn't use extra speed generated by going off-track to pass at La Source, because he had already slowed to less than KR's speed in order to let him pass.

The bigger and the flatter the kerbs are, the more track-limits become a problem. Watching qually today, most drivers were going to the edge of the red and yellow kerb at each corner. They are good enough to be able to do that. If the kerb wasn't there, they would drive to the edge of the black tarmac. QED. Instead we have these stupid track-limits rules that are enforced appallingly badly. Two drivers were penalised for going over the white line at Radillon, yet at least two drivers got away with no penalty for going over the white line between Pouhon and Stavelot.

If the kerbs were raised sigificantly, then drivers wouldn't be able to exceed the limits. The problem is circuits are shared with bike races and a raised kerb is not what you want to encounter, if you come off your bike.

Why not place a barrier on the outside of the kerb, like safer barrier or Armco, that prevents car drivers from exceeding the track limit and which can be removed for bike races?

[TrapezeArtist]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

So as predicted, Hamilton cruised around in Q1 just keeping to the 107% time rule, and thus has benefited by saving his tyres for the race. Knowing that he would have to start at the back, come what may, he is possibly in a better state, tyre wise, for the race than the front runners, and that is most definitely a benefit as most teams believe that tyre degradation is going to be a major factor tomorrow afternoon.

Well he "cruised" around at about 102% of the fastest Q1 time and 103% of the pole time, which are times I would be pretty well-pleased with. Saving tyres for the race softens the blow of starting from the back but the two things together hardly add up to a "benefit".

[TrapezeArtist]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

If the kerbs were raised sigificantly, then drivers wouldn't be able to exceed the limits. The problem is circuits are shared with bike races and a raised kerb is not what you want to encounter, if you come off your bike.

Why not place a barrier on the outside of the kerb, like safer barrier or Armco, that prevents car drivers from exceeding the track limit and which can be removed for bike races?

Yes, big kerbs would stop the problem but are unrealistic for the reason you quote,and others.

I could look quite favourably on your second suggestion. For years I've advocated something similar. It was so long ago that my suggestion involved long strings of tyres but you could easily bring that up-to-date with Safer Barrier. Simply lay a row of tyres/barrier along the edge of the track, and two or three more rows set further back across the run-off area. No driver would deliberately hit the first row, and any car going off in a major way would gradually accumulate more rows of tyres to drag along, so decelerating the car relatively gently.

But I still think the simplest and most aesthetically pleasing solution would be to remove all the kerbs. Have a couple of metres of grass outside the edge of the track, and then whatever form of run-off (gravel, tarmac, tyre-bundles, etc) outside of that. To prevent drivers cutting apexes you could place a single tyre bundle on the apex (a bit like Monza about 15 years ago) but tethered so that they won't be knocked onto the track.

[gert]

Originally Posted by TrapezeArtist

What Mercedes have done is to work within the rules to minimise the harm done by the penalty. Any sportsman in any sport would do the same.

The suggestion of carrying over grid place penalties to later races is exactly how the system was originally conceived, but the FIA then changed it to the present system. Presumably they found flaws in the original.

Sure, they have done everything within the rules. And every smart team owner would have done that.

But that doesn't mean the rules aren't broken.


Essentially, Hamilton got 2 free engines (as had several others before him) and that probably was *not* the intention of the rules.

Originally Posted by TrapezeArtist

It's hard to see how starting from the back of the grid is a "benefit".

The benefit is in the 2 extra engines he got without any penalty at all.

[TrapezeArtist]

Originally Posted by gert

Sure, they have done everything within the rules. And every smart team owner would have done that.

But that doesn't mean the rules aren't broken.

Essentially, Hamilton got 2 free engines (as had several others before him) and that probably was *not* the intention of the rules.

Doing everything within the rules does mean that the rules aren't broken.

I agree that this was probably not the intention of the rules, but if you don't like the rule, blame the rulemaker and not the team that takes advantage of badly written rules.

[old man]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

To spice up the off-track discussion a bit, I think that it is ridiculous that Hamilton has been given a 30 place grid penalty for this race, yet will only get a maximum of 21 places. And that is if he even attempts to go for pole, which I think is highly unlikely.

He will probably do the minimum number of qualifying laps to set a reasonable time in Q1, and then be able to save his tyres for the race. It makes a mockery of the rules system, where a team/driver can in some way benefit from an infringement.

The FIA, if they intend to retain the current system of grid penalties, should amend the rules so that any unused lost grid places are rolled over to the next race. Otherwise, more teams will be "bending" the sanctions in a similar way to Mercedes, artificially using more PU components than they actually need for that particular meeting.

That is how it worked before but I agree with Martin Brundle, it is not really the drivers fault that the team has mechanical problems. His suggestion is to take points from the team in the teams championship. No real reason to penalise a driver, 55 places now, for mechanical failure. Penalise the driver for driving errors, the team for car faults.

[old man]

My weather app says thunder storms tomorrow over the lunchtime before the race, that's going to spice it up a bit. Start on wets so the super soft problem disappears, perhaps Max knew that from local knowledge and is why he opted for Super Soft? :-)

[gert]

Originally Posted by TrapezeArtist

Doing everything within the rules does mean that the rules aren't broken.

I agree that this was probably not the intention of the rules, but if you don't like the rule, blame the rulemaker and not the team that takes advantage of badly written rules.

Where did I slam the team? I don't think I did :/

---

EDIT: If I say "the rules are broken" I did not mean the team broke the rules, but that there is something wrong with the rules itself.
The rules are broken as in "the rules don't work" not as in "Mercedes (or Hamilton) tried to cheat".

[gert]

Originally Posted by old man

That is how it worked before but I agree with Martin Brundle, it is not really the drivers fault that the team has mechanical problems. His suggestion is to take points from the team in the teams championship. No real reason to penalise a driver, 55 places now, for mechanical failure. Penalise the driver for driving errors, the team for car faults.

I agree to a certain extent, but it will probably never work out.
* if a driver crashes a team gets no points
* if the engine expires the driver gets no points

Driver and car are in in together.


Also, once the manufacturer's championship has been sealed, Mercedes could give Rosberg and/or Hamilton fresh engines every race, regain the points lost, and play the same trick the next race or the race thereafter.

Isn't that even worse than it is now?