Nzgp

kev · 11 May 2001, 04:43 (Ref:91158)

I read in the paper today that, at its AGM in 2 weeks time, Motorsport NZ will conisder a proposal to downgrade next years NZGP from Formula Holden cars (similar to Indy Lights) to Formula Fords.

The fact that last years NZGP series drew poor crowds was being used to justify this move. I quote " We've put a lot of time and money into getting the GP up and running again and we don't want to see it lost."

I enjoy FF racing, I am one of the few people who actually stay and watch them. Most spectators use this time to walk around the pits, get a hot dog, take a slash, etc. BUT I have to say if our GP is downgraded to FF it will not so much be lost, as disappear into obscurity.

Prior to last season the resurected NZGP was enjoying unprecedented spectator support and national media coverage. This is because it was organised by people (i.e. mainlanders) who had some degree of competence. It does not take a rocket scientist to see that the sudden drop off in support coincided with a change of venue and personel.

Tell us what you think of this idea, or better still, tell someone who matters. There addresses are on the Motorsport NZ website, I haven't tried them to see if they work....yet.

MotorsportNZ General Manager: gm@motorsport.org.nz
MotorRace NZ Ltd: mrnz@xtra.co.nz

GO THE HURRICANES!

Dan Friel · 12 May 2001, 08:32 (Ref:91430)

From what I'm watching at the moment, it's go the HIGHLANDERS!! What's happend to NZ rugby in Super 12's this year??

Anyway, back to the subject... I always thought the Holden series was a strong one and produced good racing overthe last couple of years..

Formula Ford racing cannot be described as a GP really..

Crash Test · 12 May 2001, 11:49 (Ref:91486)

Go the REDS! Then go the BRUMBIES

If that is true it would be a bit of a joke....FF's running a GP.... I guess if there is one thing that could be said, it would be "only in New Zealand"

WheelMan · 12 May 2001, 13:18 (Ref:91532)

Sad news kev.
But hardly surprising.First they took the GP away from Ruapuna and now this.
The sad thing is that more people will go to watch truck-racing than the traditional stuff.
The difference in crowds between the Ruapuna and Levels rounds of the Summer series was amazing and all because they ran trucks in Timaru.

And the less said about the Super 12 the better!
Go Crusaders... Doh!

nz_tourer · 16 May 2001, 00:09 (Ref:93052)

Sad news alright.

I suppose this means that the FH Tasman cup will not happen then, a real shame. FF provides great close racing though, I remember sitting at the hairpin along with some of the FH teams at the GP and they were certainly having their jollies. You are always gauranteed a lot of action at a FF race, and more so than the FH races last Dec - the feilds are a lot less spread out but in FF the top5 usually battle it out from start to finish. But in saying that, FH are the fastest racing cars in Australsia (or whatever) so they are a lot more attractive to advertise. The 99 Tasman Cup was great, saw some great battles.

I hope FH stay.

Warwick · 16 May 2001, 08:29 (Ref:93102)

I went to both GP meetings when it was held at Ruapuna,and the Formula Holdens weren't that exciting,as far as both GP meetings went they were pretty average,the cars were interesting to watch and check out in the pits,but the racing wasn't close enough to be really exciting,and neither were the support races.

I also went to Levels for the 99 truck race event,a crowd of 12,000 people,the racing was closer especially in the transam class,and lots more interesting,than the GP.

The reality is in NZ the Formula Holden class is a non event,the only time it runs is the Tasman cup/NZGP,the Formula Ford class unforunate as it may be is the premier single seater class in this country and it does in most cases supply the best racing,however there is nowhere to go in NZ once you succeed in this class.

With such a small population base the support and sponsorship to run faster more expensive cars just isn't there to run a full competitive field,although i have also heard that Formula 3 is being looked at and some of these cars may appear at next years festival of speed at Ruapuna!

PS Super 12, what kinda race series is that?

nz_tourer · 16 May 2001, 13:55 (Ref:93212)

on the super12, ironically it was my old school mate Junior Pelesasa that sealed the top4 spot for the Reds but took out the Highlanders in the process. but thats o.k.

go Junior and go the Reds.

Crash Test · 17 May 2001, 00:21 (Ref:93426)

Coming from a Queenslander- fantastic call NZ_Tourer

BTW- are there many FHoldens that have permanant residence in NZ?

kev · 18 May 2001, 11:22 (Ref:93977)

Only one that I know of, but who knows whats hidden away in storage around the country (not many I expect). Whenever they are advertised for sale the price is always in AUD indicating I think that the car is in Aus. Anyone who remembers how we abruptly changed from Formula Atlantic to Formuls Holden will understand local teams not wanting to invest in a top level single seater. Once bitten twice shy 'n all that.
I'd like to see the Aus & NZ controlling bodies get together and come up with a cost controled V8 powered single seater class.
EVERYBODY stops and looks when they wheel out the F5000 cars at the classics meets.
Can you fit a V8 in a FH chassis without upsetting the balance too much? Nissan do an all alloy quadcam V8 thats popular with the speedway boys.

Ray Bell · 18 May 2001, 11:34 (Ref:93982)

The iron V8s would be way too heavy for the chassis, the imbalance we used to see in F5000 would return and the cars would be near impossible.

Great to watch, no doubt... but intolerable to many...

What a shame the NZ GP has sunk to such a low level. Even contemplating Forumla Ford is an aberration!

As for changing the formula without notice, they also did this back in the seventies, the change from F5000 to FAtlantic, which left many high and dry, and spoiled things for the Australians who wanted to get more use out of their cars.

It's imperitave that Australia and New Zealand cooperate. For both countries, the economics are only sound if this happens.

Now I read elsewhere that Malcolm Ramsay is talking about a different V6 for the FHolden class. The heads have to get together or it will all fail.

kev · 18 May 2001, 12:06 (Ref:93995)

Valid points Ray.

Especially re staying in step with the Aussies (and them with us since NZ drivers make up a big part of their F Holden Grid).

Where'd you read about the new engine? did they say what it is?

BTW I just emailed this thread to the addresses I put at the top. So keep the comments comming people. You never know, someone with some clout might read them on monday morning. (or his pa will take it for spam & delete it, but you don't get anywhere without tryin')

Ray Bell · 18 May 2001, 13:09 (Ref:94003)

Quote:

Originally posted by Crash Test;
I think it was something said some time ago, when FHolden was running 92 model cars, and F3000 95 model cars, which had most of their downforce taken away from them. Basically I think these days the 92 model cars aren't on the pace because they are old.

I agree, V8 them, but can FHolden teams afford F1 transmissions??

I read in AA today some of the things Malcolm Ramsay plans to do to get the class going again.

- More international drivers
- Introducing an alloy block, overhead camshaft V6 (lighter, more reliable)
- Introducing a new chassis that is currently being used in the US (made by Reynard)
- Get the up and coming drivers to go through FHolden rather than go to the Konica series etc.

It's from the Formula Holden to change thread... no mention of what engine.

Crash Test · 20 May 2001, 03:18 (Ref:94403)

I think the change of heads could prove to be a good one, just look at the reliability of the current unit....I've seen a fair few cars expire on the warm up lap. Surely fitting a new head wouldn't be too expensive if sooner or later it is going to tear itself apart

**Craig** · 21 May 2001, 19:02 (Ref:94884)

I have received the following email regarding this topic:

Quote:

Thanks for your comments and the comments of the others contributing to the
forum.

The mrnz@xtra.co.nz is the Email of MotorRace NZ Ltd who have promoted the
Grand Prix for the last three years and will promote the event for Formula
Ford this season.

Some of your points in your original message that sparked the comments draw
some incorrect assumptions and I would like your readers to consider some of
the facts.

(1) Shifting the event last year did not affect the support and the
organisation and people involved was no different. The fact is that the
crowds at Manfeild and Pukekohe were bigger than the two South Island
meetings of the previous two seasons but not up to our expectations for
North Island crowds - these are traditionally bigger than the south because
of population. To think that the series declined because it shifted north is
totally wrong - on paper it was better.

(2)We have decided by mutual agreement with Formula Holden to take a year
away from the category because their competitor numbers are low this season
and don't include the young kiwis that have progressed through in the past.
We still think that the category is the only logical class of car for
Australia and NZ as a premier single seater class.

(3)The Grand Prix is important to us because it creates something for young
talent to aspire to. Rather than put the title on the shelf we have decided
to award it this season to Formula Ford to recognise the young talent and
encourage it. The ultimate winner at Teretonga will certainly have had to
fight for it.

I have agonised long and hard over the question of demeaning the event by
awarding it to Formula Ford but it would do less justice to run a poor field
of Formula Holdens with little or no kiwi input. We will create a new trophy
for Formula Ford also.

To answer some of your readers we work very closley with Australia on rules
and classes, particularly Formula Holden and Formula Ford. I believe the
engine Malcolm Ramsay has mentioned would be a new generation Holden engine.

We are also the promoters of the Super Truck Racing and it is the biggest
crowd draw without doubt but it appeals to a much wider audience than the
purist single seater fan. Having said that our focus will also stay with the
Grand Prix because the experience and career path for our young talent is
self evident. We will continue to push Formula Holden as the next step for
our youngsters and hope to bring back these awesomely fast cars in the
future.

Kerry Cooper
General Manager
MotorRace New Zealand Ltd

kev · 21 May 2001, 21:13 (Ref:94940)

OK. If it's a one off I can live with it.
Sure is nice to be listened to.

Crash Test · 22 May 2001, 00:11 (Ref:95002)

Agreed, and fantastic to get a response too

nz_tourer · 27 May 2001, 01:54 (Ref:97091)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by kev
[B]Only one that I know of, but who knows whats hidden away in storage around the country (not many I expect).

Are you reffering to Greg Tullet Kev? He purchased a FH prior to the Tasman Cup but didnt compete.

Warwick · 1 Jun 2001, 11:42 (Ref:99707)

I believe Stan Redmond owns one,it was purchased before the first NZGP at Ruapuna and was last run at the PDL meeting in febuary,it is black with flexible packaging systems signwriting on it,he managed to spin it exiting the pits and then twice more during his first race.

Greg Tullet bought one? at the time they were looking at doing a season in Trans Am and didnt have the funding for that,so i would have thought a Formula Holden would have out of the price range,as they said they could only raise the budget for another season in Formula Ford.

kev · 4 Jun 2001, 21:36 (Ref:101188)

I was refering to the one Scott Dixon drove last time he competed here. I believe it's still in storage, but I'll stand corrected if someone knows better.