Dorna genius again

[chunder]

So now we have the ridicukous notion that Ezpeleta reckons the bikes are too quick on teh corners and he wants to redce corner speeeds because too many riders are crashing!

"hello, wasnt it you that said 80's were the way to go and make the racing slower"


The longer we have these foolish people running the sport the worse it will get. They make rash decisions about a whole host of things before really consulting fans and other people.

Apparently the circuits are "having to spend a lot of money on safety".

Well surely that is to the benefit of everyone not just GP?

Reading between the lnes he is just trying to slow the bikes down as I think he under pressure from the ratings people who dont like seeing lots of riders injured, because then dertain pockets of fans wont watch the races. He is Spanish after all and Pedrosa is pants right now!

The sooner the control of the sport is handed to a team of peopel NOT from Spain and totally independent, the better.

[JimW]

Surely reducing the numbers of riders injured must be a good consideration to bear in mind?

Jim

[racer69]

Originally Posted by JimW

Surely reducing the numbers of riders injured must be a good consideration to bear in mind?

One could argue;

A)its an occupational hazzard (riders have been getting injured for years, why now do they decide to state the obvious?)
B)how is anything Dorna has put forward so far going to help (i fear the 'control tyre' will come back into conversation again)


Phillip Island must be in abit of trouble then going by these latest quotes

[chunder]

Anotehr aspect for me is that perhaps some of the riders coming up now are so used to electronic control on the bikes that they are perhaps not as quick to notice things as they would have been 10 years ago perhaps.

I know TC and stuff cant control a lowside or losing the front, but a lot of the crashes have been highsides, which begs the question: How can you have highsides with TC??

I think control tyre is coming and I bet it will be Michelin. They are the slower tyre and could easily supply the grid.

I am not sure why Dorna are suddenly moaning, perhaps it is because all year we have been without major players like Hopkins, Lorenzo, now Hayden. Capirossi was injured for a bit too,.

Doesnt help the ratings! And that is ALL Dorna care about.

[Graz]

Originally Posted by chunder

Anotehr aspect for me is that perhaps some of the riders coming up now are so used to electronic control on the bikes that they are perhaps not as quick to notice things as they would have been 10 years ago perhaps.

I know TC and stuff cant control a lowside or losing the front, but a lot of the crashes have been highsides, which begs the question: How can you have highsides with TC??

I think control tyre is coming and I bet it will be Michelin. They are the slower tyre and could easily supply the grid.

I am not sure why Dorna are suddenly moaning, perhaps it is because all year we have been without major players like Hopkins, Lorenzo, now Hayden. Capirossi was injured for a bit too,.

Doesnt help the ratings! And that is ALL Dorna care about.

The TC on the MotoGP bikes is different in that it allows some spinning up of the rear wheel. This allows the riders to still be able to use the Kenny Roberts pioneered drifting through the corners.

When I first read the Dorna thing I was taken aback. They cited Pedrosa's Donington crash and Lorenzo's various high sides as examples of crashes due to high speed cornering which none of these examples are - Pedrosa was simply going too quick in wet weather condiditons and Lorenzo was highsided in reasonably slow corners because he was too keen to get on the gas.

I would actually agree with a single tyre manufacturer simply for the sake of better racing and reomving a somewhat unnecessary variable. When one tyre is better than the other, it automatically splits the race in two and guys capable of fighting for victory can't do so. I think the fans would prefer to see a number of guys fighting for victory and not just the guys on x brand of tyre.

[BootsOntheSide]

I like the idea of any control tyre not being Bridgestone - it's much more of a challenge for the riders if they have to preserve the tyres over a race distance. I don't really care about having variable tyre performances from weekend to weekend. It's only really a problem if a tyre is consistantly inferior and is more expensive to run - which, thanks to Bridgestone's hard work over the last few years, is the situation we've got at the moment. Maybe it can even itself out before next year.

In car racing I'm quite opposed to driver aids, but in bike racing the safety aspect has to be factored in. It doesn't look good when so many riders are missing races or riding injured - although it appears to me that the amount of injuries (if not the severity) has increased again in the last year or two, despite all these aids? Over-aggressive young riders perhaps?

[chunder]

See this all goes back to the actual ability of riders to leanr how to control a tyre for a race and when and where to push.

It's an art that is rapidly being lost on the post 2004 generation when TC really started comin to the fore, especially with the 800's.

Part of teh skill of a Doohan, Rainey, Schwantz, Lawson, Gardner, Cadalora, Beattie, Criville and Rossi was that they spent all weekend honing the tyre and ssetup to allow them to manage it late in a race.

You can say that the TC setups now allow spin and that is true, but it still doesnt allow a rider to be quite so vital in the final area.

I think these crashes with Lorenzo and Pedrosa are clear evidence of that. Just listen to Pedrosa out there, his TC is wound up so high it is even clicking in on part throttle for goodness sake, its awful.

Riders who were aggressive in the past like Romboni, Schwantz, Loris and many others learnt the hard way about throttle steering. They crashed a lot and Doriano really nevee showed his 500 forma as a result coz he was too crocked.

This skill is being destroyed by traction control.

You only have to look at the pathetic example of Massa at Silverstone to see a driver brought up in teh gizmo revolution totaolly unable to cope with real slippy track.

It's the same in GP, everyone could see Pedrobot was far too quick, they are gettig immune to highsides and rear spin and that is why they are getting hurt.

The machine can not ALWAYS help you.

[FPV GTHO]

Originally Posted by chunder

I think control tyre is coming and I bet it will be Michelin. They are the slower tyre and could easily supply the grid.

If its a control tyre then Dorna can have it in their power to dictate the compounds and constructions of the tyres to manage the pace. It could be Michelin, Bridgestone, Dunlop or anyone else interested for that matter.

[bestfit]

I can't see it ever getting to a "control tyre" situation. At most I think it will be a single manufacturer providing a selection of compounds for the riders to choose from.

[chunder]

Erm, isnt that a control tyre then!

Any situation where you have one tryre supplier will be controlled as they can dictate whet tyres to give.

I dount as fit says though that will happen because a Kawasaki Brudge probably doesnt work on a Ducati or Yamaha!

Get Dunlop back in there, they build nice slippy tyres!!

[jhansen]

It's funny, they asked the riders what they thought. They suggested restricted 990's as one option. That would have saved us a lot of time, money and effort. A control tyre was also talked about.

Rossi says keep TC for safety reasons. He says get rid of ride by wire. There must be a throttle cable. He also says ban GPS style engine mapping. I had no idea it come that far. The GPS senses where the bike is on the track and maps it accordingly. Or something like that. Either way, that seems a bit silly.

And I agree, any control tyre would need to be available in multiple compounds.

[chunder]

GPS is what they were using in F1 for many years. You ahve to realise sadly that the same people who are making teh control systems in F1 are making them in GP aswell, so the technology is going to walk across.

I think Vale is just being clever, he would much rather ride without TC but knows that will never appen

Control tyre in GP for me is bad, in any otehr series fair enough, but GP should stil be aboue at least two makers fighting it out, that way you get the rapid development.

It was not long rememebr that dual, even triple compund tyres were new in GP, and yet they are on road bikes very quickly.

I actually would like to see the monopoly changed in WSBK now, it would be relatively simple to let tyre makers provide a relatively similar tyre.

All that is needed is a very simple softness rating to be developed and some form of instant policing to prevent cheating.

[AUTOLEGEND]

Everyone should read this month's Two Wheels Only (T.W.O.) and read MIchael Scott's article on this.

He also mentions something about the 250cc championship possibly moving to WSBK :

[JohnnyFiama]

Originally Posted by chunder

Control tyre in GP for me is bad, in any otehr series fair enough, but GP should stil be aboue at least two makers fighting it out, that way you get the rapid development.

Why would you want rapid development? What difference does it make? "Tyre wars" are very rarely successful. Most spectators couldn't care less about tyres, they're just black rubber things. What they do care about is random races where their favourite rider can't compete because he's on the wrong tyres.

All this "pinnacle of technology" stuff is just starting to sound a bit like snobbery, much the same as F1 sounds. MotoGP is going to have to be very careful in the near future, with all the major manufacturers plus BMW, Aprilia and potentially KTM in WSBK they do have a rival.....

[jhansen]

As someone that rides a motorcycle, both on the road and on the track, I can appreciate the tyre development that is passed down for road use. However, I also agree that most fans don't care about the "pinnacle of motorsport" stuff. They do want to see the best riders on the fastest bikes on the planet. That gap is not going to close with WSBK also on a control tyre. Moto GP will remain top dog. And as Rossi said before, most fans are not cheering for a tyre brand. I hate wondering if a rider got a podium on merrit, or because the riders on one brand of tyre had no chance.

[2000yellow360]

The 990s weren't ridable without TC. I suspect that's also true with the 800s. Yamaha tried to see how the 990s would work without it, and sent out one of their riders with it off. Didn't make a full lap. If you're going to eliminate the TC, you need a lot less HP.

Art

[chunder]

The 990's were rideable with TC as Rossi et al did it for two years before ot all came in

Nothing to do with power, all to do with riders being able to use it

Honda used to do thi in 500 days, Gardner was always wanting more power and Doohan came in and said, make it usable!

the ability to control power with the riders talent is being lost!

[bestfit]

A story about Marco Milandri backing a safety drive (Here) includes the following paragraph -

"Concerns have been raised about the increase in corner speeds recently, and the solution will be the introduction of a one-make tyre rule, which will be approved by the Grand Prix Commission at the Japanese GP later this month."

I haven't seen this reported anywhere else. Has anyone else?

[Hazza]

Wait wait wait.

They worry about the corner speed and highsiding, so they get rid of two strokes and goto 990cc fourstrokes.

Then they worry about terminal speed and go, no lets go 800cc, to which people go "Won't that mean narrow powerband, more cornering speed and highsides?"

So, now that is happening they want to do what?!

[chunder]

Seriously I think it is all about the fact that Pedrobiot and Lorenzo have been injured out of the championship

Ezpeleta really is that biased I am not joking! He will try and ensure that they both have the ebst chance, this is why teh HRC Bridgey thing happened!

[FPV GTHO]

Originally Posted by chunder

this is why teh HRC Bridgey thing happened!

Not to mention Rossi-Bridgestone...