LMP3 discussion

[Mike E]

I'm not sure if there is general LMP3 thread somewhere...

The Nissan V8 will be replaced with a twin turbo V6 from 2025. It's going to be a lot quieter.
And the four authorised constructors have been re-appointed. You have to wonder why. With no one buying Ginettas and Adesses, why not just open it up to anyone and keep the price cap?

https://www.dailysportscar.com/2023/...from-2025.html

[veeten]

Well, since everybody else is getting an upgrade why not P3. With teams moving up everywhere, it makes sense to trade in that old, heavy V8 for a slim, trim twin turbo V6. Better power delivery with fuel economy, teams will like that.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by veeten

Well, since everybody else is getting an upgrade why not P3. With teams moving up everywhere, it makes sense to trade in that old, heavy V8 for a slim, trim twin turbo V6. Better power delivery with fuel economy, teams will like that.

Nissan isn't supporting it any more, it's not really a series decision without someone buying out the IP

Does Adess even make the car any more? IMSA has a decent number of Duqueine running and often winning but it seems like the Ligier has great club buy in and HSR will be adding the current cars next year as well. Usually 5-10 P3s running at their events

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by veeten

Well, since everybody else is getting an upgrade why not P3. With teams moving up everywhere, it makes sense to trade in that old, heavy V8 for a slim, trim twin turbo V6. Better power delivery with fuel economy, teams will like that.

Won't sound the same though......

[v8supes]

Just irritates me. Yet another great sound gone from motorsport.

[truebeliever]

Was wondering what is going to happen in the LMP3 Class, when they switch to the Toyota turbo engine for 2025?

Will Ligier, Duqueine, Ginetta & Adess be allowed to design new cars to suit the engine?

Or will it only be the existing chassis, with an update kit for the engine?

[tomcug]

From what I remember new engine was supposed to be provided by Oreca and since they don't design and build engine themselves, good question is who might be their partner. So how do you know it will be Toyota? About cars, normally I'd expect new gen since current cars will be 5 years old in 2025 and there was 5 year gap between current-gen LMP3s and previous-gen LMP3s. But... who knows, maybe there will be some cost cutting and adapting existing cars to new engine. Time will tell

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by truebeliever

Was wondering what is going to happen in the LMP3 Class, when they switch to the Toyota turbo engine for 2025?

Will Ligier, Duqueine, Ginetta & Adess be allowed to design new cars to suit the engine?

Or will it only be the existing chassis, with an update kit for the engine?

The ACO have announced that ORECA are set to supply the next generation of powerplants for LMP3 after 2024 with a twin-turbo V6 replacing the 2020-introduced Nissan VK56, 5.6 litre normally aspirated V8s.

The 2025-2029 homologation period for LMP3 will therefore utilise the new power plant with the ACO also confirming that the four current chassis suppliers (Ligier, Duqueine, Ginetta and Adess) will continue through the 2025-29 period.

...

“The ACO will communicate shortly on the adjustment to the cars and their homologation, taking into account the high number of cars on track and the variety of championships utilizing the platform. The current chassis manufacturers have been retained for this new homologation period.”

https://www.dailysportscar.com/2023/...from-2025.html

Sounds like updating current chassis and not a full new chassis.
In practice this is only Ligier and Duqueine.

[tomcug]

https://www.motorsport.com/lemans/ne...ouse/10556075/
Looks like these guys want to supply new LMP3 engines themselves without any extra partnership. And they're very much into hydrogen racing.

[FIRE]

Ginetta To Relaunch LMP3 Programme For 2025
New engine brings new opportunities for the Yorkshire manufacturer

UK-based sportscar manufacturer Ginetta is planning to ‘relaunch’ its LMP3 programme for 2025, coinciding with the introduction of the new turbo-charged V6 Toyota ORECA engine to the formula.

Speaking to DSC, Ginetta’s motorsport director Mike Simpson said the Yorkshire-based brand will be pushing to build a customer base in time for 2025, with the aim of having cars competing in the ELMS, Le Mans Cup and associated ACO LMP3 events for the next phase of the formula.

Since it was introduced in 2020, the G61-LT-P3 has been largely absent in the major championships featuring LMP3 classes and fewer than 10 cars have been built.

...

“We’ve enjoyed supporting customers in the ADAC Prototype Cup, with Gebhart and Konrad,” he explained. “We have five cars in Germany and three or four of them have raced. We’ve worked closely there as you have to fit catalytic converters for that series for emissions in Germany.

“We have three cars that have just finished being built, one has sold. And I’d like to think there will be a Ginetta ACO programme in time.

The new-for-2025 LMP3 engine is understood to be a Toyota V35A-FTS twin-turbo V6 from ORECA, that has appeared in a number of high-end Toyota and Lexus sedans and SUVs.

...

DSC believes the upgrade kit for teams will cost around 120,000 Euros. So with new LMP3 cars costing around 300,000 Euros before tax, the expectation is that most teams will opt to purchase brand new cars for 2025 instead of upgrading.

“If you have a current car that’s done three years of running with old parts, you’ll probably sell that and buy a new one, our objective is to sell new cars to new customers” Simpson said.

...

This transitional period grants Ginetta a chance to attract customers. Simpson is keen to stress that Ginetta is still fully supportive of its LMP3 programme and dismissed the idea that Ginetta wouldn’t risk investing in LMP3 going forward with no certainty over the number of customers it can get on board.

“We have an exciting full season development for the current car with a customer team and star driver for 2024 season, with the aim to cover as much mileage and data possible to feed into the next generation car. Details of the full programme will be available very soon,” he said.

...

“We have a wonderful engineering team at Ginetta and have a lot of automotive projects underway. The installation of the new drivetrain and the necessary changes around the operation of the engine are well within the scope of our ability. For me the exciting phase will be extracting more performance in our planned development in 2024 and implementing that into the new design for 2025. I am expecting significant gains in lap times.”

...

Full story: https://www.dailysportscar.com/2024/...-for-2025.html

Hopefully this is more than some pr talk.

[flatlandsman]

I would base very little on anything Ginetta are saying they have flattered to deceive numerous times in prototype racing in recent years. They will just want customers for very overpriced cars as their main stock has to be costed fairer.

I am not am fan of LMP3 to honest, usually from IMSA where just about every yellow flag you see is caused by one of these damn thing driven by some rich berk in far over his head.

Noise, meh, when it is every car it becomes less interesting

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by flatlandsman

I would base very little on anything Ginetta are saying they have flattered to deceive numerous times in prototype racing in recent years. They will just want customers for very overpriced cars as their main stock has to be costed fairer.

I am not am fan of LMP3 to honest, usually from IMSA where just about every yellow flag you see is caused by one of these damn thing driven by some rich berk in far over his head.

Noise, meh, when it is every car it becomes less interesting

Please bring the stats sir. Cause the last 5 races were GTD Pro and GTP yellows NOT LMP3 for the most part. Hate blinding you to the facts makes the rest of the statements questionable too

[FIRE]

Yeah I don't agree with blaming LMP3.

[Coach Ep]

Ginetta's struggles have been widely reported and certainly not all on their part. Glad to see them still 'in the game' and ready to continue to have a presence, especially given the increased monotonicity nowadays.

I wish there were more 'Ginettas' these days!

[Mike E]

Agreed, I hope they can pick up some customers in the bigger series. We need more prototype variety below Hypercar.

[Adam43]

How much are Ginettas? Are they expensive? My minimal research suggests £80k +VAT for a G56 GTA. Doesn’t seem stupidly outrageous.
https://www.evo.co.uk/ginetta/205906...the-gt-academy
What equivalent undercuts it?

This is a genuine question.

[tomcug]

Originally Posted by FIRE

Hopefully this is more than some pr talk.

Would be nice but honestly it's so hard to overcome Ligier's monopoly in LMP3. From buyer's perspective, why would you go for an alternative when you have a well proven option available? Even Duqueine's LMP3 which is a good car is struggling compared to Ligier's when it comes to numbers. Good price for the car is obviously something that might attract customers but how low can Ginetta go?

[flatlandsman]

Sorry for the times I have been routinely watching IMSA past few years I must be unlucky but SOOOO many incidents are caused by LMP3, I know it probably is not the case, but when you see it, you see it every time. I think it is a lame class, often with some drivers that are very good abut some that are very very awful. And I simply do not see why it needs to be in a premier series.

I do not want every race start to finish and obviously not every yellow is the same, but I do see an awful lot of LMP3 incidents, and when you think there are less of them...

[broadrun96]

I do watch them all and do pay attention to it as people love to whine about GTD or LMP2/3 drivers in one their head. And often it's a pro driver trying to make a move on said Am who instigates the incident. Then you see an Am trying to recover so it's ahh, see another LMP3 car off track

There are exceptions, see Merriman and a few others, but for the most part and IMSA data backs it up, they aren't given any more incident responsibility calls than the pros

[Adam43]

New Ginetta series.

https://www.dailysportscar.com/2024/...mpionship.html

I’m still curious how their pricing compares.

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by Adam43

New Ginetta series.

https://www.dailysportscar.com/2024/...mpionship.html

I’m still curious how their pricing compares.

Ginetta G56 GTA/GTP
Priced From $125,000 for a new G56 GTA
and $145,000 in full race spec version available now

https://www.kaizenautosport.com/ginetta

But their LMP3 is a different beast compared to their G56 and G40.

[Mike E]

Adess reveals new AD25. It would be nice if someone ran one of these.

https://sportscar365.com/lemans/elms...ad25-lmp3-car/

[broadrun96]

Chance it could end up running in IMSA, at least it's had variety so far but better be cheaper or Ligier/Duquiene although their numbers seemed to drop this year. And teams can sell their current cars on the HSR teams as they have an LMP3 series within the histotric series

[Mike E]

And Ginetta pushing on too with a couple of teams apparently interested

https://www.dailysportscar.com/2024/...rack-test.html

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Mike E

And Ginetta pushing on too with a couple of teams apparently interested

https://www.dailysportscar.com/2024/...rack-test.html

Given the performance window of the class, it has always surprised me all of the cars weren't more competitive. Are the Ligier and Duquine easier to use? Better sales network?

Hopefully we can see all the brands represented with the new rules in 25.