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24 Oct 2003, 20:17 (Ref:762231) | #1 | |
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Super2000: Alfa Romeo 156 vs. BMW 320i E46
So this year the two major Super2000 Makes finally shared the titles, Alfa Romeo clinching the drivers' title, BMW getting the laurel among the constructors. It appears both cars, i.e. the Alfa 156TS and the BMW 320 are more or less equivalent. But what do you think? Which are according to you all the strong and weak point of any of them? Why Alfa Romeo prevailed at certain tracks while BMW were stronger in other occasions? To sum up, which are the main characteristics of Alfa Romeo and BMW? Let's try to deliver a technical analysis of their features!
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24 Oct 2003, 22:07 (Ref:762293) | #2 | ||
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Alfa advantages: Aerodynamics, engine power, gearbox, one lap pace, favours high temperatures
BMW advantages: Traction, starts, end of race pace, more cars, favours low temperatures |
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25 Oct 2003, 09:07 (Ref:762516) | #3 | ||
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I don't think sequential gearbox generally means an advantage for Alfa (there's additional weight concerning the regulations), but they had big problems with super production- gearboxes last season. BMW has much more experience with that kind and so they still use it. At the end of the races GTA front tyres often were in bad condition.
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26 Oct 2003, 07:07 (Ref:763296) | #4 | |
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What's the situation about gearboxes? Didn't Alfa have sequential boxes last year?
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26 Oct 2003, 07:30 (Ref:763319) | #5 | ||
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Alfa did not use a sequential gearbox last year. Actually the teams could choose from this year on.
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26 Oct 2003, 14:33 (Ref:763652) | #6 | ||
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Alfa choosed sequintial .. and BMW H pattern
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26 Oct 2003, 15:22 (Ref:763679) | #7 | ||
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Yes, any car running with a sequential gearbox has a additional 30kg weight penalty.
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26 Oct 2003, 16:35 (Ref:763737) | #8 | ||
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yes the weight penalty is one thing but the sequential shifts save seconds a lap, without the weight wel...
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26 Oct 2003, 18:00 (Ref:763781) | #9 | |
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So BMWs still use H-pattern box?
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26 Oct 2003, 18:14 (Ref:763804) | #10 | ||
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That is correct yes.
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27 Oct 2003, 07:02 (Ref:764164) | #11 | ||
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If sequential resulted in 1 second better laptimes I'm sure BMW would have taken it to use instead of "old" H-pattern box.
I'm not sure if all the privateer alfas have upgraded gear boxes since in the beginning of the season there were rumours that only autodelta alfas use seq box. |
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27 Oct 2003, 14:18 (Ref:764586) | #12 | ||
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Scuderia Bigazzi and Team Clever Cats used H-pattern boxes.
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27 Oct 2003, 15:59 (Ref:764690) | #13 | ||
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.. so that means last year gearboxes .. right???
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27 Oct 2003, 17:37 (Ref:764792) | #14 | ||
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Quote:
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27 Oct 2003, 20:03 (Ref:764969) | #15 | ||
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Yes
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2 Nov 2003, 14:52 (Ref:770775) | #16 | ||
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Alfas because of its front wheel advantage against the BMW's real wheel drive. Also it has more torque than the BMW out of the corners.
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2 Nov 2003, 15:33 (Ref:770794) | #17 | ||
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It's simple, the Alfas have the most powerful engine in ETCC and the highest top-speed. Like every other FWD car they have trouble with understeer and they need most of their weight in the front to get enough traction under acceleration. The Alfa has 61/41 weight distributon which severly affects their braking and cornering performance. The BMW on the other hand has less engine power, but an almost neutral weight distribution (51/49), which means better breaking and cornering performance. Of course RWD means also improved traction under acceleration.
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2 Nov 2003, 18:17 (Ref:770864) | #18 | ||
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where are the Ex Btcc Ford mondeos to squish the ETCC competition? I miss those. That was real Touring car action
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2 Nov 2003, 19:44 (Ref:770893) | #19 | ||
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Quote:
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2 Nov 2003, 21:48 (Ref:770964) | #20 | ||
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Yes they are. Not allowed in the ETCC. Built according to totally different rules.
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2 Nov 2003, 23:40 (Ref:771056) | #21 | |||
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Quote:
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2 Nov 2003, 23:40 (Ref:771057) | #22 | ||
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i know but they were so much better.
perhaps if alfa can get a rear roll bar added and stiffen up the rear they can improve on their cornering, not that it is terrible but it is clear the BMW's do better. It'd be nice to se the Seats, Hondas and Volvos run up front too. In the modern era of touring cars would you all rather see them Front drivers or as a bmw set up, I know classically as all cars were built rear drive the racers were too, but Touring cars has come to mean something different and more 'hotted up grocery getter racer' to me meaning front drive, let the GT's run rear drive... but if it is all good for competition. |
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