Sydney's second race track...

[Peddler]

Well its a pretty big topic if you live in the Sydney basin and are into Motorsport...

So what are the facts and what can Sydney motorsport lovers expect in regards to getting a second track now that Oran Park has gone?

As i understand it, its now pretty obvious that Tony Perich isnt interested in building a second track. Recent video interview at Oran Park's last day had Tony claim that V8Supercars influence wasnt going to allow him to change his mind.

State or Federal Governments are not going to throw anyone mutiples of tens of millions of dollars to build a place. Even if they did, every greenie and his dog would find a reason for it not to happen!

Last of all look at the attempts over the last few years by numerous groups be them half arsed or with cred... nothing gets legs because of red tape.

So taking emotion out of the equation... does anyone think that we will get a second track in Sydney?

[db120176]

I get the feeling the only way Sydney is getting a second circuit is for us to consider Wakefield Park Sydney

[Tourer]

By & large the Sydney basin for a racetrack is really very, very hard. If you have a look at how many year's work the drag guys had to put into getting WSID up & running it'll give an idea.

On top of that, with growing population, the time window for any new track isn't great - both Amaroo & now Oran Parks succumbed to housing developments but there is much less open space within the Sydney basin now and housing already growing in those directions.

I agree with db120176 that Wakefield Park (& Marulan if it gets up) would have to be considered as "best bets". I know of at least one other track a couple of hours north of sydney that is in early planning / examination (doesn't mean that it is going to happen) and these "out of town" type locations seem to be the go to me.

If you look at Victoria, Winton is 2 hours nth of Melb, Phillip Island 2 hours Sth, Sandown on its last legs in many ways with limited usage, Calder there but don't know what this week's plan is there. Sth Australia - Mallala well out of town and I hear that AIR might be getting a birthday - it is on the outskirts of the urban area with lots of open area around it still. Qld has QR well out of town & Lakeside for limited use only, WA Barbagallo is well out of the main city. Even Hidden Valley is well out of Darwin really.

I just think that its a case of Sydney catching up with the rest of the country - having circuits within the urban sprawl has been an unusual and probably unsustainable enjoyment.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Tourer

I just think that its a case of Sydney catching up with the rest of the country - having circuits within the urban sprawl has been an unusual and probably unsustainable enjoyment.

I think it's a tough deal. Too far out and it hurts the corporate business, daily turnover from track rental, schools, OEM events, etc. Too close in and you have all these whiny prats going on and on about the noise. I don't really know what the best solution is.

Just an idea but one solution not tried yet in Australia is the country club business model. Locate up in the Hunter Valley region or near some vineyards and some nice scenery. Design a multi use track with multiple configurations, trackside condos/villas, a nice multi function center and then maybe add in a off road trail facility, rally course and kart track. Allow the members a certain number of exclusive days a year.

[Also a Believer]

It has a second track, its called homebush and its once a year.

[Razor]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

I think it's a tough deal. Too far out and it hurts the corporate business, daily turnover from track rental, schools, OEM events, etc. Too close in and you have all these whiny prats going on and on about the noise. I don't really know what the best solution is.

Just an idea but one solution not tried yet in Australia is the country club business model. Locate up in the Hunter Valley region or near some vineyards and some nice scenery. Design a multi use track with multiple configurations, trackside condos/villas, a nice multi function center and then maybe add in a off road trail facility, rally course and kart track. Allow the members a certain number of exclusive days a year.

Sounds good to me

[Oldtony]

Maybe one of our Kiwi friends could enlighten us, but that sounds sort of like the Hampton Downs model.

[David Brand]

What about in the Southern Highlands? Only an hour from Sydney (half the distance of Wakefield) and plenty of land for a decent sized track. There are also many areas without nearby residential areas. One that springs to mind is High Range. Close to the Hume Highway and Mittagong, but enough land to build an international airport.

[Reload]

Originally Posted by David Brand

What about in the Southern Highlands? Only an hour from Sydney (half the distance of Wakefield) and plenty of land for a decent sized track. There are also many areas without nearby residential areas. One that springs to mind is High Range. Close to the Hume Highway and Mittagong, but enough land to build an international airport.

As a retirement area for the who's who of millionaires and people in the right places, i'm not thinking that the locals would have a bar of it.

[davelise]

Originally Posted by lowgto

As a retirement area for the who's who of millionaires and people in the right places, i'm not thinking that the locals would have a bar of it.

I would!! Our workshop is in Mittagong and I live in Bowral. It is the perfect place for a racetrack.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Oldtony

Maybe one of our Kiwi friends could enlighten us, but that sounds sort of like the Hampton Downs model.

There was a detailed article about Hampton Downs in Speedsport magazine about the business model those guys put together and I think they did a good job of ensuring the place could be a multi use facility with multiple revenue streams. That's the best way of keeping the doors open and also having the revenue to keep the place at a high standard.

I've worked at quite a few "country club" tracks in the USA and the best ones are the ones that are all inclusive. They have scalable options to suit the average joe all the way up to the mega millionaire. Some days they set aside for members only and then other days the track can be rented and they have club racing on weekends. One place I know of was doing a tidy business in garage rentals where anyone could rent a garage to keep their car at the track or work on it. That in turn attracted some small race shops to provide rentals or maintenance. And so on and so on, some of these places make a mint if thought out well.

The ones that don't work are those that cater "exclusively" to the wine and cheese millionaire set. They don't turnover revenue every day, the place is dead with no atmosphere and eventually to stay in business they do have to let others in and then members don't like it or whatever and the whole caboodle goes downhill.

I've gotten a lot of experience this year traveling and seeing tracks on and off road get designed and how it all works and what doesn't work. I've been humbled by being asked my opinions on different things as well and it is nice to have an input. Possibly some day I'd put some of that experience to work, maybe in Australia.

[NewsStalker]

Originally Posted by David Brand

What about in the Southern Highlands? Only an hour from Sydney (half the distance of Wakefield) and plenty of land for a decent sized track. There are also many areas without nearby residential areas. One that springs to mind is High Range. Close to the Hume Highway and Mittagong, but enough land to build an international airport.

Isn't most of that area National Park land though?

[Micklegend]

Wakefield is also a good option for Canberra, just less than an hour away.

Seriously, teams could stay in Goulburn or surrounding towns, or even Canberra at a stretch for these meetings. From north Canberra its only 45 minutes to the track.

Wakefield is well used and has room for an extension, does not bother anyone as far as neghbours are concerned and would be a good cash injection to the area for major race weekends.

Wakefield has a good paddock, spectating is great as you can see the whole track too.

[Casper]

I have always maintained that a second track would never get built in the Sydney basin and seems I was right. As for Wakefield, it may surprise you that there is a noise curfew on the track from 4pm and yes, there are noise issues even there. I was talking to Matthew the other day and jokingly suggested that he expand the place but he didn't commit, just smiled nicely. The issues of getting anything more on that site are obvious, engineering and earthworks would cost a fortune. Amaroo park was the ultimate multi-use site and possibly the only one in Australia but I may be wrong there, anyone?

[NewsStalker]

Engineering and earthworks at Wakefield wouldn;t be more expensive than at any other existing track - there is no particular 'problem' at the venue apart from ownership of the surrounding land and the disturbance the noise causes to the sheep and adjacent restaurant/camping facility (can't recall the name of the venue on the Goulburn side of the track).

Then of course there would be limitations on what can/can't be done under the power lines that run across the edge of the track.

[PVDA]

Originally Posted by NewsStalker

Then of course there would be limitations on what can/can't be done under the power lines that run across the edge of the track.

Not as bad as you might think actually, in Victoria you cant build a building directly under the wires (we do building mobile phone base station huts inside the pylons tthough) but so long as there is a minimum of 9m clearance you can build a road underneath.

I was talking to a power company inspector in Alexandra (Vic) several years ago and he told me that the wire height varies up to 2 metres on a typical 300m span between pylons depending on how much current is flowing down the line & how hot the day is (hot day + high current = very low power lines).

So there's PVDA's useless fact for the day

[NewsStalker]

A road is not the same as a race track though. For example - a marshall's post directly under the power liines. This would start an immediate argument amongst the marshalls themselves as to their own safety (real or imagined - I'm not taking sides or advocating one way or the other).

[johnh875]

I think the only hope would be to build it within the noise 'area' of the next Syd international airport - if that ever happens

[Malfunction Junction]

Originally Posted by johnh875

I think the only hope would be to build it within the noise 'area' of the next Syd international airport - if that ever happens

I kneel before thee oh wise one.

[Casper]

Originally Posted by NewsStalker

Engineering and earthworks at Wakefield wouldn;t be more expensive than at any other existing track -

You have first had knowledge of this? What other existing track are you using for comparison? We are all talking rubbish anyway as a second track is not going to be built, the tooth fairies are out to lunch on this one.

[dirtymacca]

think the only hope would be to build it within the noise 'area' of the next Syd international airport - if that ever happens

Got my vote......access roads....airport location

[dirtymacca]

Noise restriction problem....

[B24]

Why is the idea of a track in Sydney even considered? We have one plus another track a few short hours away and Bathurst which is now available to a far larger portion of the Motorsport enthusiests.
Total waste of time in my opinion.

Find a town which almost dead way out of Sydney with a train line close by, meet with the council to bring the track back to life, then build a track 10km out of town with a watertight agreement on the long term future of a facility.
If everyone pulled together this would be far more likely than a track in Sydney.

[jezz]

dont know if this will work or not, but got these pics from my cousin. this is where the bridge used to be

[jezz]

As for wakefield, i havent heard anything about expansion or whatnot, But at the moment Marulan needs our support. I believe there will be a council meeting within a week or so that could potentially be make or break. I still cant see what the problem is with marulan though, it is not a race track but a place for driver training, something that gets claimed there are none of EVERY time a P plater wraps him/herself around a tree.

anyway, rant over. Agree with a few posts above, especially the airport one, very good idea, unlikely to happen though.....