Safety Car regs

[Stuart Hill]

Why can F1 not learn from American racing and "wave" the lapped-traffic through ready for a re-start???

Surely this is a much better spectacle for the fans??

We would have had a fantastic last 17 laps at Silverstone!!

[johnh875]

From what I could "see" on the live timing, Raikkonen got by the two lapped cars relatively painlessly and right on Schuey's gearbox within a lap (lap 47) so he still had plenty of opportunity, but alas not the pace.

[Stuart Hill]

Originally posted by johnh875
From what I could "see" on the live timing, Raikkonen got by the two lapped cars relatively painlessly and right on Schuey's gearbox within a lap (lap 47) so he still had plenty of opportunity, but alas not the pace.

but he still had to pass them!!!!

what if he had been on MS's gearbox for all of the last safety car lap??

[johnh875]

Well, he may have run into MS' gearbox!!! (a la JPM...)

Seriously though, once he did get onto the back of MS, he could not stay there.

I can't say I'm that familiar with the American system you mention, I can only think of the Nascar system which is only applicable to ovals. Thinking about the problem quickly though I can't see a solution that is without disadvantages to some of the field. Also waving cars through can cause problems of its own.

[Stuart Hill]

Originally posted by johnh875
Well, he may have run into MS' gearbox!!! (a la JPM...)

Seriously though, once he did get onto the back of MS, he could not stay there.

I can't say I'm that familiar with the American system you mention, I can only think of the Nascar system which is only applicable to ovals. Thinking about the problem quickly though I can't see a solution that is without disadvantages to some of the field. Also waving cars through can cause problems of its own.

Maybe I did not explain myself correctly...... sorry...

Safety car comes out.....

all lapped cars are allowed to pass and re-join at the back of the 'train'. This leaves all the drivers competing for a win line astern of each other ready to race!!!!
No Back-markers....
No obstructions.....

let's go RACING !!!!!!!!!

but that's just not F1, ......is it???????????

[Fuzzyfelt]

Not so crazy Stu. It has to make more sense to wave the lapped traffic through. God knows passing is difficult enough.

[johnh875]

Ok, I thought that must have been the case.

However the principle as I understand it is the SC is out to "neutralise" the race. How would you feel if you have just battled to overtake a backmarker for several laps, then a SC comes out and your competitor behind you is (1) brought right up onto your tail and (2) any traffic between you (including the car you have just worked your way past) is removed? Surely the 1st advantage given to those behind is sufficient?

In this race, the safety car worked in Raikkonen's favour as he was right behind MS prior to the SC, pitted under the SC and only had the 2 lapped cars in front of him afterwards. If he had pitted under racing conditions MS would have been down the road and out of reach anyway.

[Williamp]

I id notice as well that the safety car is the "new" Mercedes SLK.

Is this really wuick enough to be an F1 safety car? I know the previous onw was a tuned V8-version SL which should easily have been quick enough, but the SLK???

Next they'll be using the A-class

[Aysedasi]

Looked quick enough to me.....

[Stuart Hill]

Originally posted by johnh875

In this race, the safety car worked in Raikkonen's favour as he was right behind MS prior to the SC, pitted under the SC and only had the 2 lapped cars in front of him afterwards. If he had pitted under racing conditions MS would have been down the road and out of reach anyway.

agrred john but let's look at the 'bigger' picture....

F1 is "supposedly a sport".........
to entertain crowds and draw spectators (on tv etc)...
which leads to more sponsors..
which leads to.... etc, etc!!!

if the race is not a spectacle then the crowds diminish...... seen CART & IRL recently????

but NASCAR, with all it's "false" overtaking is still filling grandstands, 100,00+, and attracting sponsors.

why??

because the guys are allowed to race....
the fans can get to meet the drivers...
tickets are cheap by F1 standards..
facilities are decent.....

and the series understands that it needs to put-on-a-show rather than a demonstration of fast cars.

I love F1, the power, the noise, the speeds........but.....
if I had a choice between marshalling F1 at any circuit and attending a NASCAR race at any venue............

I'd be in the stands watching 43 cars doing 180mph+, six inches apart, for 500 miles!!!!!!!

[Woolley]

I thought that lapped cars were shuffled to the back of the line in the States, not sent round to make up a lap, but I could be wrong.

It does make sense to me to get everyone who's actually racing together.

[ysofast]

Woolley is right I think. Kimi would have had a go at ms as his tires came in quicker. ms even said that in the post race, he was thankful for the lappers. I vote for a minor change and watch the sparks fly.

[BootsOntheSide]

Considering that Rubens didn't stick tothe abck of Kimi's car even though there was no-one else in front of him, I'm not sure Kimi would've made better use of it.

Kimi had already got a free pitstop, how much does it take to bet Michael? And how far are people willing to create artificial rules ot make it happen? What we got was thrilling anyway.

[johnh875]

That does make more sense Woolley, they wouldn't give the lap back to the lapped traffic.

There are 2 schools of thought really, the "can't manipulate the race" and the "well the SC already interferes with the race, so why not make the most of it". I'd have to say that overall I would be in the second.

[Stuart Hill]

Originally posted by BootsOntheSide
I'm not sure Kimi would've made better use of it.

nor am I but it would have been to nice to watch him try!!!

[Stuart Hill]

Originally posted by Woolley
I thought that lapped cars were shuffled to the back of the line in the States, not sent round to make up a lap, but I could be wrong.

It does make sense to me to get everyone who's actually racing together.

sorry, that's what I meant, not what I said!

Point is, let the leaders race and others be elsewhere.

[Kicking-back]

IRL and ChampCar would have had the cars in exactly the same order on a restart as F1 did.

[Fuzzyfelt]

But IRL and Champ Cars can pass on the track.

[Kicking-back]

Er, Kimi did pass those two backmarkers on the track. The Ferrari ahead of him was faster - and in no racing series can you pass a faster car!

[jase]

Originally posted by crazystu
Why can F1 not learn from American racing and "wave" the lapped-traffic through ready for a re-start???

Surely this is a much better spectacle for the fans??

We would have had a fantastic last 17 laps at Silverstone!!

Stu, you only "wave through traffic" until you have the race leader behind the SC, as far as I know this happens in all series that run an SC.

How would you have told the 2 cars between Michael and Kimi that they have to shuffle? can't really be done, (IMO)

[Kicking-back]

Jason - absolutely right!

[Stuart Hill]

Originally posted by Kicking-back
Jason - absolutely right!

Jason; absolutely wrong!!!!!!!

let the cars that are one or more laps down......get out of the way!!!!! ie; join the back of the queue!!!!!

let the contenders race !!!

[Stuart Hill]

Originally posted by jasongore
How would you have told the 2 cars between Michael and Kimi that they have to shuffle? can't really be done, (IMO)

by the radios that they all have !!!!

TELL them to move over whilst they are still travelling so slowly. It's not rocket science !!!!

[R]

Don't be so angry, crazystu!

What if one of the drivers suffered "radio problems"? I've heard it's happened before.

[jase]

Stu, I suggest you re-read the SC regs for many national and FIA series, then come back and comment.

Once you have the leader, that is it, you dont shuffle the pack or play with the track order any more than you need to - ie getting the race leader behind the SC