Rare Video - The Great Race

[racer69]

I found a video at the Video store today called 'The Great Race', it was a review from the Hardie Ferodo/JH 1000's between 1978-1981, it was ok, showed a bit more than the 75/85 video, but still wasn't long enough, it also looked like the end was cut a bit, indicating it may have been on TV?. Some interesting points:

Moffat joined Mike in the commentary box back in 1978 at the mountain after his car has failed, they were still together in '99.

Was Moffat thinking of retiring after 1979, Evan Green asks him if he will be back in '80, and he says he would rather not answer it.

The video showed an edited and commentary free of Bartlett's Hardies Heroes '81 lap, that was wonderful, best one that i've seen.

It also got me thinking, how many rare video's (ie.. not sold any more) are there around these days from Australia's motorsport history?

[DAVID PATERSON]

Allan Moffat was always adamant that he wouldn't race without factory support and throughout the '70s Ford continally withdrew support from his team. By 1979 it was almost non-existent.

During 1979 CAMS decreed that homolgation for the XC Falcon would expire PRIOR to Sandown and Bathurst 1980. Ford made it clear that they were definitely NOT interested in racing the XD and in fact did not even homologate the car. Garry Willmington took it upon himself to do so and did all of the initial development and paperwork.

Throughout 1980 it seemed unlikely that Moffat would race at the enduros in 1980 and in fact he drove a Commodore at Sandown in 1980, on the proviso that he did NOT race a Ford at Bathurst. Three weeks prior to Bathurst, with the support of his associate sponsors, Moffat began building an XD. As we all know now, it was woefully underprepared and the engine expired on lap 3.

After that race and in retaliation for the unceremonious way he had been dumped by FoMoCo, Moffat declared that he would never again race a Ford. He held true to his word for about 8 years.

[Airhead]

Thanks for the comments David. That is the way I perceived his career to go as well in the late '70's to the mid '80's.

As an aside it is during this time period from the two car Moffat Ford Dealer Team Cobras of '78 to the Mazda RX7 that I believe shows his comparative lack of financial support in relation to his main opposition. Despite Ray's assertion that Brock was always in a team of paupers!

I also had the chance to look over the Bathurst highlights DVD's at Christmas time (thanks Luke) and was on the edge of my seat for the races of the 1970's. For me this was the golden period of the event. The current races pale in comparison.

[Buckshot]

Im also currently working my way through the DVD box set and last night watched Volumes 2 and 3. I'm a littlie bit disappointed they are just some rehashed Channel 7 special from 1987 hosted by a young Neil Crompton almost wearing a Safari Suit they look that dated.

Some of the finishes back then weren't as close as they are now. I think there was one race there in the late 70s Brock won by 3 Laps ? And when the 2 Falcons went accross the line together they must have had a very hefty lead to be able to do that - and then the jags did it a few years later.

If Skaifey had of won last year by 3 laps you guys would have all been squawking about it. But it seems it was ok to finish by that far a margin 20 odd years ago ? I don't understand.

[Crash Test]

Think about what some of the results would be like these days if they didn't have safety cars...it's no longer an enduro, but a 20 lap sprint after the last safety car leaves the track.

One video have seen in Drysdales Auto Books is a video on Longford.... if only I had large amounts of money to spend...

[racer69]

CT is right, the safety cars have turned it into a sprint, not the classic enduro is once was. As Brock said in 1999, the days were when it was non stop all day, dodging the pick-up trucks and so on. If it wasn't for the safety car, how far in front would Menu/Plato have been in '97, or Skaife/Lowdnes the next year, and the last two were laughable, would they have been that close without the safety car, hell no.

The cars were more exciting to watch as well, and the early laps of '78, '81 & '82 are classic stuff, and the 1-3 for the Jags in '85 doesn't represent how close it was, Brock broke down with 3 to go while catching Goss, and the Ravaglia BMW was off song all day, yet finished on the same lap in 2nd, plus Goss had a broken seat.

PS.. on Moffat, why did he get to be #1 in 1980, and as far as i know, wasn't Bob Morris' team mate, yet was somehow cross-entered in it and drove it later in the race. He also seemed pretty confident of a win in '81 in the Mazda, he said it was going like a "pan-am jet mate" when interviewed by Wilko.

[Airhead]

Mr 69

whenever Alan said "it's going like a Pan Am 747" you knew it was a half an hour away from total destruction. It was like a Morse code message for the faithful. Change your bets now!

[Flaggie]

If this current crop of drivers actually took any notice of yellow and white flags, we wouldn't need a stupid safety car, anyway.

However, since they dont, they've decided on using a safety car with arbitrarily makes races closer than what they should be. If someone's good enough to win by 6 laps, they should be allowed to race on their merits. The ONLY reason Skaife/Longhurst didn't win by the length of Conrod last year was because of safety cars. It's an absolute joke.

Can anyone actually point out for me ONE accident that was directly attributable to a quick lift truck, being covered under Yellows and Whites? I defy you to. Instead we have race control putting out safety cars to clear things that were way off race line. Can the safety Car, NOW. Or if not, then severely curtail its use.

<gets off soap box>

[Buckshot]

Do you honestly think you could find track marshalls brave enough - or stupid enough to let dimwits like Rodney Forbes, Paul Morris or yegods, even Matt Neal go past them at full race pace whislt they're clearing up a car on Mt Panorama ?

Imagine the law suits AVESCO or CAMS or whoever would be setting themselves up for !

[Ray Bell]

I've never asserted that Brock was in a team of paupers... usually one of the best funded teams, maybe even the best at one time (in the nineties)...

Moffat sure was battling money problems after his star had dimmed with Ford, though I don't think he went terribly short in his Mazda/Stuyvesant years.

[Flaggie]

Originally posted by Buckshot
Do you honestly think you could find track marshalls brave enough - or stupid enough to let dimwits like Rodney Forbes, Paul Morris or yegods, even Matt Neal go past them at full race pace whislt they're clearing up a car on Mt Panorama ?

Imagine the law suits AVESCO or CAMS or whoever would be setting themselves up for !

Firstly. You're missing my point. The drivers DONT take any notice of yellow and white flags. Yellow flags are simple "A situation of possible danger exists ahead, be prepared to take evasive action." A white says that there is "slow moving behicles or service vehicles on track" Perfectly clear. If they actually took any notice of the flags, I wouldnt have a problem being out on the track pushing cars off. It's because they dont take any notice that we have a safety car.

Secondly, Paul Morris and Rodney Forbes are not dim wits. Matt Neal? He's a pom, so you expect stupid stuff from him.

Thirdly, Of course, if it's all gone to utter hell and there's cars scattered from bunghole to brekky time, and debris every where then yeah, put out the safety car. Last year's Bathurst for example. When Brock/Owen stuck it in the kitty at the Chase they cleared it under yellow flag. Good call. Then later in the race when Harris/Simpson stuck it in at Reid Park, and were up against the wall, well off line, they put out a safety car for that. Bad Call. It could have easily stayed there.

Just my 2c....

[Crash Test]

I remember talking to someone who raced at Bathurst in the days prior to safety cars, and he said it was never a problem... all the drivers ever had to do was drive to the conditions...

[Group'C']

Flaggie your remark about the Harris/Simpson car shocks me, If that car was of line I'm Glad your not waving flags where I race!!!
Wasn't that the same place Brock put a car into,94
Croswell in practice 96
Lowndes in 97
All so wasn't Jason Bright's Falcon off the racing line when he got hit by Cameron McLean in Practice ,98 at Skyline
Remember the saftey cars are for the Saftey of everyone, are they not?
When there where no walls at Bathurst, there was plenty of area's to park a car well off line and out of the way, these days its a bit different

Thats just my 2c worth

[BJAY]

I totaly agree with Group'C'.
The Harris car was on the right hand side of the circuit, which is where a car would go if it had a loose there. So the Safety Car was needed. The Chase is very open with a sand trap at the end of it, nothing like Reid Park, so of course they could get the car away safely under racing conditions.

Any of you guys have the video "Classic Bathurst Crashes"? Near the end the is a little montage of clips, with one of them being an onboard in someone's car (early 80's) going up through the Cutting with a tow truck on one side, and a stranded car on the other. Barely enough room for the cars to get through, yet they're still going at race pace. That is just too dangerous these days.

BJ

[FalconEL]

BJAY,

I think I remember the footage. It was an incar shot from Dick Johnson's XE Falcon in 1982 as the cars (himself, Kevin Bartlett and John Harvey) made their way through the Lawrence/Russell, Wigston/Harrington, Finnigan/Gates Commodore crash at the Cutting. It was pretty dangerous back then I agree, but I think you'll find DJ wasn't at full race pace, more likely about 6/10ths.

There was another instance when Peter Willamson in the Celica arrived around the blind left hander before the Cutting in 1981 and came very close to hitting the back of a truck which was stopped on the left, however there is no question that he was still at full race pace. I think at the time he was mouthing off to Mike Raymond on the Racecam and more than likely missed the flaggies signals or just didn't care about anything other than not losing time flogging the little tool-eater Toyota up the hill by backing off.

In my opinion, back in the days of Quick-Lift trucks etc. the drivers in the main, drove to the conditions (respected and expected that there might have been a rescue vehicle ahead) and therefore there would have been very few, if any accidents involving rescue vehicles. To me it's all about common sense and respect. No question, thesedays the cars are a lot faster, however the current crop of drivers don't show the same type of respect for:

a) their own equipment (they don't really have to because they are virtually unbreakable thesedays so they flog the things to death. The days of showing a little "mechanical sympathy" are long gone).

b) the conditions (Bathurst 2000 and 2001 was a good example where cars were spearing off everywhere repeatedly virtually all day)

c) their opponents (crashing into each other in V8 Supercar racing is acceptable whereas back in the days of Group C, panel damage occurred fairly rarely).

What was the thread again???????? Just my two cents worth anyway...

CD.

[Group'C']

Yea lets get back to the real Thread here

I,m trying to find the footage from Hardies Hero's in 1981, This is when they got 2 attempts at the run off and Kevin Bartlett put the Camaro on pole in the wet. I,m looking for the footage of Garth Wigston(V8 Supercar series Steward) when he nearly made an upset on both his laps, he was quickest to the bottom of Conrod( at both attempts) and spun on both times at the last corner.
Can any one help????

It would be great to see the full races from pre 85 put on to DVD

[racer69]

I'm with you Group 'C', welcome to 10-tenths as well

The earliest full race i've got is '84, so i'm after everything before that, including Hardies Heroes. From the review vids those look awesome.

[Group'C']

Racer , It looks Like I've found some already
Got talking to this bloke who's moved to Tassie and say's he's got 81 and 82 on Beta format, Im going to get a copy off him and see what it looks like. Hope he can find 83.
He also said he's got complete years of ATCC around the same era

I think I may have 84 as well , just cant find the box I put it in!!
I'll keep in touch about the Quality

[racer69]

Thanks mate, keep in touch

[Diabando]

If you are looking for any sort of rare motorsport video (particularly popular ones like Bathurst), pull out the yellow pages for your state, and find listings for places like "Video Warehouse" or something similar. There are shops like these all over Australia, which are independant from your rental video store, or any sell-through outlets such as Myer/Coles etc. They stock just about everything - on any topic - not just motorsport.

Cheers!

[Group'C']

Thanks for the advise Diabando
The races we are looking for are only available in Highlite packages and we are looking for the full race.
The only way to get this is if somebody taped the days racing

[toranaA9X77]

I watched the video you mention back in the 80's and yes the hardies heroes lap by KB was possibly the greatest drive of his career. Can you tell me more on the video IE where was it being sold, who produced it? I have been looking for it for 20 years now.

[racer69]

Geez i've been around here that long

I've not been back to that video shop in years, i could drop in when i next get a chance to see if it is still there....though its likely to be full of DVDs these days

Looked like it was a Channel 7 production (or possibly ATLAB, when did their partnership start?), possibly shown on TV then sold on video at a later date.

[PVDA]

Check the Chevron Publishing cattle dog, they sell most of the tapes/DVD's these days.

[chavez]

Originally Posted by racer69

Geez i've been around here that long

I've not been back to that video shop in years, i could drop in when i next get a chance to see if it is still there....though its likely to be full of DVDs these days

Looked like it was a Channel 7 production (or possibly ATLAB, when did their partnership start?), possibly shown on TV then sold on video at a later date.

The video in question was definitely available in the early eighties. I borrowed a copy from the video library in Knox City, Melbourne on a number of occasions. It disappeared off the shelf around 1991.

Other videos that were once available, but are no longer available.

- 1984 James Hardie 1000 (60 minutes)
- 1986 Australian Touring Car Championship (90 minutes)
- 1987 Australian Touring Car Championship

Strangely videos of the 1991 ATCC and the 1992 ATCC were made and sold through Sports Seen (and Duke) in the UK, but never through Chevron locally.