Japanese drivers

[cjh]

Hi new to the forum. I have been following all sorts of motorsports the last few years.

I would like some views on why Japan have never produced a top class F1 driver? They have the money, support from fans etc. Sato have been a good talent for a long time, else there have only been a few drivers that have had a few single GPs.

Thanks

[OZ_HCR32]

I would say culture and their domestic motorsport scene., In my eyes their premiere series have far too many gentlemen racers, the people with the contacts more then the ability. This limits the support of the real talent in the ranks.

You only have to look at how European drivers go when they get seats in their series, and what happens when a youg European guy jumps into their open wheeler series.

[BootsOntheSide]

Maybe the natural talent just isn't there? Lots of them have reached F1 but none have been more than adequate.

[steve nielsen]

Only the last years have Japanese drivers been coming to Europe to drive in F3 and GP2, if a talented Japanese driver can adjust to the European style of working their could be a good F1 driver in there somewhere.

[Ryo28]

Its also possible for some Japanese drivers to earn a salary for staying in Japan and driving in sports cars/Formula Nippon, which perhaps makes them less motivated to come to Europe/progress through the ranks.

[kipper]

I think it is a combination of factors; firstly a Japenese driver have a succesful career without leaving Japan in Formula Nippon and GTs, meaning that they are less keen to try a career in F1.

Secondly, most Japanese drivers tend to race in Japan meaning that there is the potential for some driver to slip under the radar of the euro-centric F1 teams.

Thirdly, luck does play a part in it; for instance Kazuyoshi Hoshino was considered for a drive at Lotus Honda in the 1980s after winning muliple championships in Japan, but was discounted on account of age, with the drive going to Satoru Nakajima, whose CV was much comprehensive.

[cjh]

Thanks for your views.

[nycuk]

Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide

Maybe the natural talent just isn't there? Lots of them have reached F1 but none have been more than adequate.

I agree - there have been some Japanese drivers that have been genuinely fast. I'm thinking of Katayama and Takagi in particular, though they seemed to lack other vital attributes that their peers may have possessed, in other words they weren't the complete package. IMO Aguri Suzuki was the closest thing to a 'complete' Japanese F1 driver. He was fast (remember Spa 93 qualy in the Footwork?) and he had a good racing head on his shoulders.

Another reason may be the language barrier. I appreciate that Sato speaks very good English but I remember hearing tales of Japanese drivers racing in Europe that needed interpreters - that's got to be a hurdle. Ryo Fukuda was being touted a few years ago as the best thing ever to come out of Japan but it didn't happen for him.

I'm sure that the likes of Kazuyoshi Hoshino, Hitoshi Ogawa etc would have made the grade in F1 if they'd had the breaks (or the inclination) though.

[Yannick]

So far, the top 3 Japanese drivers in F1 obviously are Taku-san, Ukyo-san and Aguri-san. Hopefully, Sakon-san gets another chance at an F1 drive soon.

[Bononi]

It might be, but I can see a future where asian drivers will dominate... just look at the new venues.

[BootsOntheSide]

Isn't Fukuda half-American, so presumably had every chance to learn English?

Katayama was a pretty decent driver, although like Suzuki he was a bit too crash-prone.

Good point about Japan's racing scene - it's probably second only to America in real terms as the most appealing in terms of fame and fortune, and unlike NASCAR in the US you don't have to commit to it in advance and/or already have specialist experience (ovals in this case).

[mac]

Most Japanese drivers (in any discipline) tend to have a bit of a kamikaze style about them. This can lead to the odd impressive drive - and the odd impressive (or not so impressive) crash.

[neilap]

It seems to me too that the style of racing in Japan is a little different from what is required in F1. When I watch GT races and some other they seem almost like dare devil in style.
I think many drivers would like to be in F1 but most seem to be more interested in what their country has to offer. Either way, I have been a little disappointed in what Japan has offered in F1. However, there are so many factors that could lead to their average performance. I would say that Sato is looking pretty good now that he has a Japanese team behind him. Maybe a lot of the issue is cultural, more so than talent.

[alonso11]

Up to F3 level there are a handful of Japanese drivers with decent records, but no real breakthrough performances above that. Recently it was Nakajima and Hirate who looked particulary good, up until they got in GP2 that is.

[ensign14]

Originally Posted by kipper

Thirdly, luck does play a part in it; for instance Kazuyoshi Hoshino was considered for a drive at Lotus Honda in the 1980s after winning muliple championships in Japan, but was discounted on account of age, with the drive going to Satoru Nakajima, whose CV was much comprehensive.

I think that was Hasemi.

I reckon Motoyama could have given it a good go had he not been making big money in Japan.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by nycuk

Another reason may be the language barrier. I appreciate that Sato speaks very good English but I remember hearing tales of Japanese drivers racing in Europe that needed interpreters

You maybe onto something here. Compare them to Japanese WSB riders for example (Haga in particular). He's one of the top 5 riders in the series, and rides for a Japanese team. He doesn't have to get over the language or culture barrier, but when he was at Ducati (non Japanese team) he wasn't the same rider.

[BootsOntheSide]

Haga did pretty well on the Renegade Ducati in 2004. He wasn't that far off beating the factory bikes - Laconi isn't a great rider but Toseland is. Most WSBK teams have been ran from Europe with lots of European staff anyway - Honda's was always British-ran, the Yamaha team he's raced for is Italian, and so on. Obviously there are Japanese on the technical side though.

[Fletcher]

Originally Posted by Yannick

So far, the top 3 Japanese drivers in F1 obviously are Taku-san, Ukyo-san and Aguri-san. Hopefully, Sakon-san gets another chance at an F1 drive soon.

More than slightly OT, but isn't -san always added to the surname?

I've got a soft spot for Japanese drivers as I find their kamikaze style quite entertaining. I think the best ones we've seen are Katayama and Sato, although I would like to have seen Takagi a bit more as he seemed to be promising. I got the impression he was largely affected by the language barrier and didn't speak almost any English when he came into F1.

In my opinion Katayama had a real chance to break into the top level - after 1994 I thought he'd be able to do it as he'd have had some 20-odd points with better reliability. His performances in the Tyrrell were nothing short of astonishing that year and I believe he did have a contract offer from Benetton for 1995 which he had to decline as he had a tumor in his neck. After that his performances dropped - wasn't the weight rule changed then so that lightweight drivers wouldn't get such a big advantage? Being partnered by Salo might also have been a contributing factor as it was said his bullying was bad for Ukyo's confidence.

Hirate's and Nakajima's results in GP2 have been a disappoitment so far - I hope they can put their act together later in the season. Kazuki has at least been quick on some instances.

[kipper]

Originally Posted by Fletcher

In my opinion Katayama had a real chance to break into the top level - after 1994 I thought he'd be able to do it as he'd have had some 20-odd points with better reliability. His performances in the Tyrrell were nothing short of astonishing that year and I believe he did have a contract offer from Benetton for 1995 which he had to decline as he had a tumor in his neck.

I'll agree that Katayama's result in '94 were pretty impressive. Hockenheim stands out as one race where he could have got a mega result with better luck. With regards to '95 I don't think Katayama ever confirmed which team it was; although the fact that Katayama was sponsored by Japan Tobacco who were also title sponsor of Benetton, combined with the fact that Benetton were looking around for a number two driver at the time means that it doesn't take a genius to work which team it probably was.

Originally Posted by Fletcher

After that his performances dropped - wasn't the weight rule changed then so that lightweight drivers wouldn't get such a big advantage? Being partnered by Salo might also have been a contributing factor as it was said his bullying was bad for Ukyo's confidence.

Indeed, the weight rules did remove one of Katayama's advantages. I guess missing out on a top drive and Salo stealing the limelight would have probably had a negative affect on his motivation.

[strider]

I reckon Sato is the best so far, and perhaps the most westernised. There's a fascinating article in F1 Racing this month where he and Ant Davidson are talking about the time they have spent racing together, going back to British F3 in 2001.

It's also a very good example of how the fiercest of rivals on track can genuinely be close friends off it, even without 'man management' from above.

[BootsOntheSide]

Did the weight rule change for 1995? If it did, Ukyo would've totally underperformed that year, especially with Michael as his team-mate. We'll never know, but Ukyo is probably still the closest thing Japan has had to an F1 star. Five points was far less than he deserved that year - qualifying a Tyrrell fifth in successive races on tracks as different as Hockenheim and the Hungaroring says a lot for him.

[kmchow]

Originally Posted by kipper

I think it is a combination of factors; firstly a Japenese driver have a succesful career without leaving Japan in Formula Nippon and GTs, meaning that they are less keen to try a career in F1.

It is odd that great F3 drivers struggle with F1. OTOH, Japan's F1 history is only 30-40 yrs while F1 has been around for at least 2X as long for European drivers.

Originally Posted by kipper

Secondly, most Japanese drivers tend to race in Japan meaning that there is the potential for some driver to slip under the radar of the euro-centric F1 teams.

But since Japanese drivers are largely chosen by Toyota/Honda and they are heavily involved in racing, I'm sure Toyota/Honda would be able to put forth good prospects?

[Rennen]

Originally Posted by strider

I reckon Sato is the best so far, and perhaps the most westernised. There's a fascinating article in F1 Racing this month where he and Ant Davidson are talking about the time they have spent racing together, going back to British F3 in 2001.

It's also a very good example of how the fiercest of rivals on track can genuinely be close friends off it, even without 'man management' from above.

Thanks for that 'strider' I provided Ant's pa with all of his F3 Qualifying and 30 race results recently, I wondered what they wanted it for! I'll have to go buy a copy.

'neilap' I usually agree with your posts, and your #13 post is spot on. Wait till Sato san get to Fuji, his support there will make the Hamilton hype look like a girl scouts jamboree!

[Sev]

Originally Posted by alonso11

Up to F3 level there are a handful of Japanese drivers with decent records, but no real breakthrough performances above that. Recently it was Nakajima and Hirate who looked particulary good, up until they got in GP2 that is.

I still think Nakajima is showing a lot of promise in GP2. He's shown plenty of speed, but also plenty of inexperience as well. Hopefully another year in the series, and he could be ready for F1. Of course, that is conjecture, but he certainly hasn't ruled himself out.

Hirate....yeah, whatever.

[kipper]

Originally Posted by kmchow

It is odd that great F3 drivers struggle with F1. OTOH, Japan's F1 history is only 30-40 yrs while F1 has been around for at least 2X as long for European drivers.

That is undoubtebly true and would help explain the absence of Japanese driver on a regular basis until the late '80s.

Originally Posted by kmchow

But since Japanese drivers are largely chosen by Toyota/Honda and they are heavily involved in racing, I'm sure Toyota/Honda would be able to put forth good prospects?

I guess the point is that is that Honda and Toyota are multi national companies and need to promote their case in markets other than Japan. Whilst it is true that Japan represents a large car market, both marques support a number of Japanese GT teams, meaning that they already have substantial exposure in their home country. This is probably backed up by Honda only securing F1 race seats for Satoru Nakajima and Takuma Sato and Toyota yet to place any Japanese driver in a F1 seat (although Kazuki Nakajima may buck this trend).