The end of Jaguar?

JAG · 28 Jul 2004, 17:22 (Ref:1050105)

Surely Webber moving to Williams is the final nail in the coffin for the Jaguar F1 program.

What an absolute disgrace that a once proud racing team/manufactuer has been left to fight it out with second string teams like Jordan and Sauber in F1.

The Jaguar/Ford mangagement really need to pull Jaguar out of F1. They should return to Le Mans, fund the Ford WRC program properly and concentrate on a Ford customer engine program in F1.

Remember the claims of a 'sea of green' at the British GP. Didn't happen did it. Unfortunately for Jaguar this 'sea of Green' was at Le Mans supporting Bentley, TVR and next year Aston Martin!

All of the support the manufactuer built up during the 80s/90s in sportscar racing is slowly ebbing away.

Jaguar is not an F1 team, as was perfectly obvious when the team was announced!

Kicking-back · 28 Jul 2004, 17:33 (Ref:1050111)

No, it's not the end of Jaguar.

They've just invested big money in a wind tunnel.

The team will continue.

Knowlesy · 28 Jul 2004, 17:38 (Ref:1050114)

I can't see it lasting for many more years UNLESS real progress is made. They need to be challenging for wins.

Once a proud and successful tartan outfit now a farcical leaping cat. Or supposedly leaping. I think floundering is more apt.

Why did Jackie sell out. Suppose he didn't have a choice though in the end.

Kicking-back · 28 Jul 2004, 17:44 (Ref:1050124)

Jackie sold because he realised the era of being able to challenge without being closely aligned with the resources of a major manufacturer were over.

Super Tourer · 28 Jul 2004, 17:49 (Ref:1050131)

Quote:

Originally posted by Kicking-back
Jackie sold because he realised the era of being able to challenge without being closely aligned with the resources of a major manufacturer were over.

Indeed, it's somewhat ironic that in it's new form, Jaguar have achieved substantially less than Stewart did!

Knowlesy · 28 Jul 2004, 17:52 (Ref:1050135)

But he had Fords backing anyways.....not quite like Jaguar did in the beginning but still enough to do the job.

Money doesn't buy success anyways.

JAG · 28 Jul 2004, 17:53 (Ref:1050137)

Quote:

Originally posted by Kicking-back
No, it's not the end of Jaguar.

They've just invested big money in a wind tunnel.

The team will continue.

The 'team' will continue in some form. I doubt Jaguar/Ford will.

Kicking-back · 28 Jul 2004, 17:55 (Ref:1050139)

Red Bull Cosworth Racing

Super Tourer · 28 Jul 2004, 18:01 (Ref:1050141)

On a serious note, I thought that the latest management of the team were going to rely on a more 'back to basics' approach. I guess the writing was on the wall when they signed Klien at the behest of a relatively minor sponsor, only to be publically regretted some while later by the team boss.....

It also sums up the teams approach that their 'greatest triumph' from a marketing viewpoint was to get that 'diamondgate' nonsense at Monaco turned into a 30 min show on US TV. Apparently the marketing suits were over the moon with the exposure to 125M viewers, and have never reconcilled the fact that success on the track actually leads to the sort of exposure Ferrari enjoy, and on who's model their marketing plan was built.

The team will survive, but I think it's only a matter of time before it is branded Ford, sooner or latter the poor performance comparison with it's immediate rivals will impact on the Jaguar brand.

Next year it needs to build an effective car and 'graft' with a decent driver line up - in both seats. Ford are in a better financial situation, but the Premier group brands are not making money, which may impact on Jaguar racing in the future anyway.

They will be there in the short term, but with a ticking clock and fingers drumming on the boardroom table in Detroit, as background noise IMO.

The rumble is that Red Bull will have a much greater presence on the car next year, as a prelude to a buying a stake in the team.

Super Tourer · 28 Jul 2004, 18:02 (Ref:1050142)

K-B, beat me to it!

foreversideways · 28 Jul 2004, 18:31 (Ref:1050183)

I think thet the vast amount of money which Ford paid to Jackie Stewart probably helped persuade the canny Scotsman to sell out. In my opinion Ford have very little focus on F1 and given the right opportunity to bail out would do.

esorniloc · 28 Jul 2004, 20:49 (Ref:1050296)

Quote:

Originally posted by JAG

What an absolute disgrace that a once proud racing team/manufactuer has been left to fight it out with second string teams like Jordan and Sauber in F1.

When did Jaguar ever win an F1 race? Why are they proud?

Kicking-back · 28 Jul 2004, 21:11 (Ref:1050329)

He never sais they'd won an F1 race.

They were a proud racing team/manufacturer in sportscars and touring cars.

There is life beyond Grand Prix, esornlic!

Hugh Jarce · 28 Jul 2004, 22:16 (Ref:1050398)

When we were at Monaco we saw Jackie in the pitlane with this 'chassis' - he looked like he had plenty to keep him busy providing he could find a box to stand on!

See pic!

SFonseca · 28 Jul 2004, 23:15 (Ref:1050432)

Quote:

Originally posted by JAG
Surely Webber moving to Williams is the final nail in the coffin for the Jaguar F1 program.

GOD would hear you.
Why is Jaguar wasting time in F1?

Skam85 · 29 Jul 2004, 05:05 (Ref:1050511)

If Jag go with Davidson and Klien in 2005, they'd be OK. Remember without Senna McLaren built themselves back up. All Jag need is a star driver to get them back up there and I think that Ant can fill Webber's shoes nicely.

Wrex · 29 Jul 2004, 05:22 (Ref:1050517)

Ant and Coultard IMO would be the best lineup they could imagine.

C'mon boys, open up those chequebooks and make it happen.

JAG · 29 Jul 2004, 05:56 (Ref:1050528)

Quote:

Originally posted by Skam85
If Jag go with Davidson and Klien in 2005, they'd be OK. Remember without Senna McLaren built themselves back up. All Jag need is a star driver to get them back up there and I think that Ant can fill Webber's shoes nicely.

The point is Jaguar have NEVER been up there despite the huge investment from Ford. Manufactuers simply cannot justify huge F1 budgets unless they are regulars on the podium.

Ford do not have the long term commitment needed to succeed in F1. Sadly their half hearted approach in F1 is not delivering results, and at the same time pulling vital resources away from other Ford racing projects.

BTW I was reminded on another forum that 2004 was originally the final year of the Jaguar F1 program, unless the contract has since been extended.

Redlake27 · 29 Jul 2004, 07:00 (Ref:1050557)

Although not a fan of Jackie, I do admire the fact he managed to get around $100M of investment from Ford to set up Stewart GP, and then realising that sustained competiveness in 21st century F1 was going to be beyond Stewart to sell the whole thing again to Ford for a similar amount.

Ford are the same company that bought Kwik Fit for a billion and sold it for less than half that a couple of years later. Sir Tommy Farmer and Sir Jackie Stewart. Canny Scots or rip-off merchants?

I think Ford should continue with Jaguar. The team has contributed to giving Jaguar a younger image, irrespective of results.

PaulSands · 29 Jul 2004, 07:11 (Ref:1050567)

What odds a Russian Oilgarch appearing and buying Jag-ski?

1200Datto27 · 29 Jul 2004, 07:14 (Ref:1050571)

Hugh,

Why would ha need a box to stand on? the important bits are already at eyelevel!

BootsOntheSide · 29 Jul 2004, 09:35 (Ref:1050663)

Compared to the other manufacturers, Ford haven't invested much. The rest would laugh at the idea of taking on a pay-driver, yet Jaguar felt forced into it to remain competitive with the lead car.

There are other problems in the team of course. The management structure seems disorganised, with a lot of people spending too much time bickering and disturbing the team. The Lauda/Rahal farce says a lot about them. Things appear to have improved behind the scenes, but this year's car has been a dog, and I'm not sure Mark has given 110% quite so much this year - he always knew he'd be moving upwards after riding it out.

Kicking-back · 29 Jul 2004, 09:50 (Ref:1050686)

Management has been a lot more stable of late, and any other team with the same budget as Jaguar would be broadly where they are.

It needs big investment to move forwards.

Dan Rear · 29 Jul 2004, 13:28 (Ref:1050883)

Quote:

Originally posted by Hugh Jarce
When we were at Monaco we saw Jackie in the pitlane with this 'chassis' - he looked like he had plenty to keep him busy providing he could find a box to stand on!

See pic!

Hugh

Are you a friend of Ginger Tompkinson by any chance, of 'Golden Goals and Silver Saves' fame??

Mouser · 29 Jul 2004, 14:04 (Ref:1050907)

I don't know what the fate of Jaguar will be,but I hope
that they stay at least a few more years in Formula One
racing.It just won't be the same without them.
The prestige of competing in arguably the world's
greatest motorsport should be enough incentive to remain.

I know victory and podiums are important,but Jaguar
should be proud of it's team. If I had a team,I'd
rather be at the back of the field in F1,than at the
front of the field in a lesser series.

Winning isn't everthing.Winning is the icing on the cake. But racing IS everthing. Jag should stay in the limelight
of Formula One.

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