Anyone watch the Catalunya rally in 1995?

[Yoong Montoya]

I've read about it in Colin McRae's new book 'The Real McRae' and it sounds almost exactly like the Austrian Grand Prix this year. Did anyone else watch that rally and how much noise were you making when McRae did a Rubens at the end?

[racer69]

I've only seen it on the 1995 WRC Review video.

McRae was 5 points clear of Sainz in the title in this the second last round. They were running 1-2 near the end of the rally, comfortably 1-2, Sainz leading McRae, and as they were both driving for Subaru David Richards imposed team orders which ordered them to maintain position, which McRae wasn't happy about.

He attacked the next few stages and took the lead. Subaru organised a stop point on one of the last stages to allow Sainz to get back in front, but McRae sped straight through it, one of the team mechanics had to make a quick dash to the side of the road to avoid being run over.

McRae eventually incurred a time penalty to allow Sainz back infront. McRae spat the dummy back at the service area big time, crying out stuff like 'Why do i have to lose' and so on. It meant McRae and Sainz went to the final round, the RAC, tied on 90 points. McRae ultimatly winning that and the World Title.

Don't see the problem with the orders that Subaru imposed. The team was running 1-2-3, they wanted to get closer to Mitsubishi in the manufacturers title, and the last thing Prodrive wanted was two drivers going at it to possibly put that title which is more important to them than the drivers. McRae should have been professional about it.

I haven't watched the review for a while, this was also the rally that Toyota Team Europe were found to be illegally tinkering with their turbo's wasn't it?

[Lee Janotta]

I see a big problem with the orders! They completely contravene the ideal of the sport! Subaru could be secure in their knowledge that one of their drivers was going to win the title.

This BS about the manufacturer's championship being more important is just that: The public doesn't care one bit about it, so what's the value?

If the #1 driver is getting beat by his teammate, tough sh*t... He doesn't deserve to be the #1 then.

And how many drivers have obediently held position, then not lived long enough to be paid back for their loyalty? Ronnie Peterson and Gilles Villeneuve just off the top of my head, I'm sure there are many more. I believe that's the case with one of Fangio's old teammates.

Plus it leads to situations like Imola '82, when a little weasel like Pironi waits until the last opportunity to disobey the team orders and catches his teammate off guard.

Too much politics, just let 'em go at it!

[Radisichrox]

Perhaps Sainz in 2000 at the Acropolis rally was giving McRae some payback. It was the exact same situation, McRae and Sainz were some ten or fifteen points behind Richard Burns and Marcus Gronholm, and on the third day of the rally while McRae lead Sainz, Malcom Wilson ended up imposing team orders on them.
Sainz was running second on the road and McRae first, so Sainz was going to be quicker than McRae no matter what happened. Sainz led the rally for several stages before they were told by Ford to stop and let the clock run out to allow McRae back into the lead.

[Yoong Montoya]

Originally posted by Lee Janotta
I see a big problem with the orders! They completely contravene the ideal of the sport! Subaru could be secure in their knowledge that one of their drivers was going to win the title.

This BS about the manufacturer's championship being more important is just that: The public doesn't care one bit about it, so what's the value?

If the #1 driver is getting beat by his teammate, tough sh*t... He doesn't deserve to be the #1 then.

And how many drivers have obediently held position, then not lived long enough to be paid back for their loyalty? Ronnie Peterson and Gilles Villeneuve just off the top of my head, I'm sure there are many more. I believe that's the case with one of Fangio's old teammates.

Plus it leads to situations like Imola '82, when a little weasel like Pironi waits until the last opportunity to disobey the team orders and catches his teammate off guard.

Too much politics, just let 'em go at it!

Well said, and I hate it when a driver beats his team mate fair and square (like Barrichello did at Nurburgring 2002) and people assume that he only won because of the 'hold position' team order. You could argue that Rubens was only ahead of Michael in Austria because Michael was ordered not to challenge him for the win. We'll never know if Austria 2002 was a genuine contest between Barrichello and Schumacher. But that's team orders for you. They'll always be around.

[racer69]

The thing about the Catalunya saga was that Sainz was beating McRae when the orders were introduced, and when they were ordered, he backed off, while McRae didn't. Had Sainz kept on pushing, he possibly would have been able to keep the lead in his own right. To Subaru the manufacturers title is more important, therefore the orders were right for them.

This was a similiar to Sweden 1995. Ericsson was leading Makkinen at the end of day 2, so Cowan told them to hold position to the end of the rally. Makkinen comes out the next day and blows Ericsson away, then slows to allow Kenneth to win, yet he didn't jump up and down and complain about it.

[alfasud]

Similar team orders were used in the very first Group A rally - Monte Carlo 1987 - where Juha Kankkunen pulled over near the end of the last stage (within sight of the spectators at the end of stage), to allow Miki Biasion to make up time and take the win. Both were driving Lancia Delta HF 4x4's, but in this case Kankkunen in his first rally for the Lancia team, had been leading and it seemed he has clearly going to win.

Speculation was that it was payback for Biasion, who had been instructed to allow Markku Alen to win at San Remo the previous year.

[Jordi]

I agree with racer69. McRae went quicker because Sainz and Moya thought they'd accept the orders. Sainz-Moya never went at full tilt that day!

I still remember the Subaru mechanic who tried to stop McRae in the middle of the stage and was this close to be ran over...

[William Dale Jr]

IIRC, the Lancia team also applied team orders on a rally in the early 80's. On a dirt rally (Portugal, perhaps) when they were using the 037's. Can't remember the exact details off-hand, though.

[racer69]

Lancia seemed to apply team orders quite frequently.

They applied team orders quite often in 1987, then ofcourse there was the 1986 San Remo.

I remember in 1983, Walter Rohrl and Marku Alen both had a very good chance of the title going into the last round, the RAC, but Cesare Fiorio refused to enter because the manufacturers championship had already been secured by Lancia, and he didn't want to spend anymore money. Thus they both missed the rally and Hannu Mikkola finished 2nd and took the title.