What manufacturers can Pook attract for 2005?

[Raven]

Read this in Autosport this week:

Car giants targeted

CART boss Chris Pook has dropped a strong hint that he is courting German giants Audi and Porsche as part of his drive to attract manufacturers back to the US-based series in 2005.

The ex-patriot Briton last week gave the most detailed outline yet of his vision for the all-new Champ Car rules package, based around three-litre V10 engines. It will be introduced in two years at the end of a period of stability during which Ford-badged Cosworth turbo engines will be run.

He added that a race in Germany, reinstated to the CART schedule for this year is key to luring the country’s automotive powerhouses into his new formula.

“Germany is very popular because it is the home of several manufacturers, including those not in Formula 1 [Porsche, Audi/VW and Opel]. We’re going to pursue at least one European company, possibly two, and if you’re going to have them on board, you obviously need to race in Europe.”

Pook added that he envisages basing the new formula around attracting manufacturers, especially those not in F1, to supply engines.

“There is a whole range of manufacturers who, for whatever reason, do not wish or cannot afford to race in F1,” he said “We can fill a niche for them.”

Porsche, which has scheduled its return to international motorsport for 2005, has previously admitted to considering CART among its other options. Audi is undergoing a major push to increase sales in the USA and already competes there with it’s R8 sportscar, which will be outlawed by a rules change next year.

Pook has outlined that his series’ V10s will not be the same as F1 engines, because of price capping, bans on exotic materials and a minimum weight limit. “The hardware will not be transferable,” he said.

CART will also exchange methanol for petrol, while fuel stops will be scrapped, along with driver aids, such as traction control.

I think Porsche would be a strong candidate, the pieces fit. VW doesn’t look like going to F1 and what others do you think could be coming in? Didn’t Honda only leave because of the engine debacle last year?

But the 2.65L V8 Turbos, it would be a shame to lose them.

[DNQ]

Well I've been against the V10 idea, but if it brings Audi or Porsche, I'm all for it.

[Mal]

If this happens then champcars really could rival F1 in a few years time!

[Lee Janotta]

So... They'll have basically the same formula as F1, but there'll be no value in sharing parts between the series.

But they expect about the same power as F1 without using the same technology, but from the same displacement?

Pook's f***ing nuts!

[veeten]

told ya...

[Russfeld]

Audi wont race in CART. VW maybe, but not the Audi brand

[Bizzo5000]

I'm still struggling with the no re-fueling thing. If the only passing that happens now is in the pits, what happens when you take them away? I'm hoping the new engine formula will change that, but......

[Snrub]

Porche and Audi are both good canidates. Both could be canidates from a stock block V6 formula too.

Does anyone have ANY idea why a 3.0L V10 formula is a good idea? Even if you don't agree with it, can you come up with ANY reasons?

[Lee Janotta]

Uhm... 'cause maybe people will confuse you with Formula 1? That's all I can figure.

I think the people they're talking to are a bunch of morons who think this is a cheap version of F1.

How this sort of formula would be any better a value for manufacturers than the 2.65L V6, I can't understand.

Bizzo, even with no refueling, they'd still have passing in the pits, because the teams would be racing each other to change the tires and make wing and suspension changes as fast as possible.

[3state]

if the engines aren't the same as those in F1 then why introduce the normally aspirated v10? don't get it or like it either. Unless, they're still holding out the hope of a merger with the IRL, possibly as a 5-10 year contingenct plan? Would the engines be compatible with that series? Hmmm...

Or is Pook getting CART ready for the possible team split in F1 slated for 2007? CART will be there to pick up the pieces as well as being familiar enough for F1 fans to make the shift should f1 self-implode??? I'm speculating. Any thoughts?

[wreckless]

V10's!!!!!!!!!! aaawwwwww

PORCHE!!!!!!!!! 2 thumbs up

[f1manoz]

I still don't agree going with the V10 route even if it does attract manufacturers.

What's the point to having V10s? How many cars on the road are V10s????

[Russfeld]

How many cars are V6 turbos?

[DNQ]

Ford Falcon XR6 Turbo - one of the highest selling performance cars in Australia I bet they sell 2 turbo V6 powered cars then they do for every V10.

[f1manoz]

Quite a few of those pap, Jap pieces of cr*p have V6 turbos...

[StuiE]

Hey! F1manoz, i thought you were cool, but now...

So... They'll have basically the same formula as F1, but there'll be no value in sharing parts between the series.

But they expect about the same power as F1 without using the same technology, but from the same displacement?

Is it just me, or is it the IRL v CART war again, only with F1 now? Although Bernie is friends with Chris, so you never know...

[¡As-de-mim!]

A couple of points I think some of you are missing:

1. The cost of F1 engines are going to come down, waaaaay down. When an engine has to last 6 full race weekends, we are now talking 24 hour endurance engines, i.e. LeMans engines. In 6 full weekends, the engines will run at least 24 hours. In an 18 race season, a team will start with a new engine and do only two engine changes in an entire season.

Now they do 3 engine changes per weekend, in other words, they go through 3 x 18 = 54 engines, plus pre-season = 60 engines per car per year. Think about that. We will be going from 60 engines per car down to 4 engines per car (3 + 1 for pre-season). Costs will be 1/15th what they are today....but wait there is more.

2. All the expensive exotic material will be out of the engines, cost now down to 1/20th of today....but wait, there is more.

3. Most of the electronics will be stripped from the engines, cost now down to 1/25th what they are today....but wait, there is more.

4. Standards wings and other pieces will be mandated, much less need for a wind tunnel, cost now down to 1/30th what they are today.

5. Standard brakes will be used, cost now down to.....I can go on....

6. As soon as the costs come down, 3 or so new manufacturers are going to jump in and build F1 engines (remember I told you so). Previous comments did not take that into account...and each manufacturer will be required to supply 4 or more carss, if the demand is there.

The bottom line is that by 2005 and 2006, CART teams will be able to afford F1 engines, because the cost will be waaaay down and the manufacturers will subsidize CART teams as they do F1 teams, but now the cost to do so will be 1/25th what it is today....maybe they won't even need a subsidy.

Yes, the engine manufacturers are the lifeblood of any race series, including NASCAR. Perhaps you do not realize how much each manufacturer spends in NASCAR - it is far more than any other sponsor, constituent, etc, far more. There is not one successful bigtime racing series in this world that does not have major manufacturer support. If the engine manufacturers pull out the series become a shadow of its former self...overnight. Racing is, after all, about cars....and car companies have always supported racing....and always will, if it makes economical sense.

On top of this, there is a bigger CART/F1/Pook/Bernie plan in play that I have not laid out yet, you folks will have to guess what it is for now....but it will explain why the manufacturers will join CART (sorry I am not at liberty to say anymore).

[Lee Janotta]

Well, if this "MarkC" guy is actually a credible source, it confirms what I've been saying about the impending Eccelstone takeover.

But he's clearly not a competent engineer. You can't get a 3.0L V-10 to make 700hp, _and_ last for multiple weekends, _AND_ not use lots of unobtanium in the construction!

Besides, Pook has stated that there won't be parts sharing between F1 and CART engines... So what's the point?!

[Flatspot]

Originally posted by Russfeld

How many cars are V6 turbos?

My guess is more than turbo V-8's.

We really should do a write in campaign to Pook to keep the turbos. I'd probably rather see a Cosworth spec turbo formula into perpetuity than a NA anything.

They can make the V-10 work but it just won't be the same.

[Lee Janotta]

Certainly a lot more than are V-10s, Russ!

I'm still working on that letter... Hoping to have it finished by thursday.

[FastCar5]

I may be in a difference of opinion on this thread but I like the idea of V-10s. They scream exotic to me. I do not understand the reasoning of some in this forum that would rather see a race engine that is similar to the one in their driveways. I.e. Inline 4s, V-6s, V-8s. If we can’t have turbos, superchargers or freaking turbines what is really wrong with V-10s? In fact I would love to see flat 12s. The more extreme the better. In my humble opinion anyway. Am I the only one that feels this way?

[gaines]

I like the turbos but I'm willing to accept change if it makes the series stronger. What I'm wondering is with F1, CART and the IRL all with V-10 engines what would stop an all-star race? *imagination roars with glee....reality punches in face* Oh yeah, the freaking maniac personalities.

You know, the reason the Indy 500 was such a wonderful race, way back when, was that you could show up with different types of racing cars and get into the race and show who was best. Now it's a freaking series race. I want another race that attracts the best from all over the world of open wheel racing. Sort of an IROC series except it doesn't have anything to do with stock cars. I want to know, is Schu the best driver? Is he really or has he always had better equipment? Could Patrick Carpentier hang with Jacques? How many times would Montoya lap Eddie Cheever? I want to know!

[FastCar5]

Answers to above qustions:
1) Yes he is the best driver.....presently.
2) His equipment is 1st class but still he is the best driver....presently
3) Sad to say Patrick could not hang on to JV
4) Montoya would lap Cheever by the first pit stop!

[The Snout]

You know, the reason the Indy 500 was such a wonderful race, way back when, was that you could show up with different types of racing cars and get into the race and show who was best.

Yep the question of would the Buick/Menard have race pace and reliability this year was something I enjoyed, and the Mercedes of 1994 and how would it go. Can't get that with the Formula Ford racing that goes on there now.

[Snrub]

Forced induction is comming back in a big way, there are lots of manufacturers with forced induction engines of some description and many with forced induction V6s.

Toyota, Nissan (Renault), Porsche, GM, Mercedes are the ones I can think of off the top of my head.