Visible grooves, or lack thereof.

[JohnSSC]

The Michelin teams (particularly Alonso) seemed to be running the fronts a very long time. My understanding of the rule is that the tire (or tyre) should have at least 4 visible grooves or channels. Alonso was the most obvious example, but it seemed a number of the teams had far less than the 4 channels. There must be a performance advantage or the teams would not do it.

How is this reg to be enforced? Is it the tires/tyres you start on or finish on? Can the stewards black flag you during the race for this infraction?

When is Bridgestone going to start asking the officials to enforce this rule?

Any thoughts out there?

.:confused:

[red5]

Ralf schumacher said, his first tyres had a lot of graining at the beginning. So he decided to change only the rear-tyres.
there is a rule, that you should see the tyre-profile at the end of the race. in the parc ferme sometimes the tyres seems to be slicks, but there is a lot of dirt at the surface.

[JohnSSC]

I agree that there can be a great deal of erosion. I am presuming then that it is the condition of the tires post-race that determines their legality?

Welcome, by the way, red5!

[red5]

I am presuming then that it is the condition of the tires post-race that determines their legality?

*translate*
Puuh, my english is not the best.

But right, they verify the legality in the parc ferme after the race.

[f1manoz]

No-one seems to make a big fuss about it. Team managers occassionally claim they will dispute the result based on the grooves, but nothing ever seems to be done about it.

[Mark Webber]

the way both williams tyres ended up both cars should have been thrown out of the race . rules are rules . otherwise do everyone a favour and go back to real slicks

[Hugh Jarce]

I didn't notice Alonso's tyres, but I saw both Williams in their pit stops and they appeared to have distinct 'bald' areas.

Perhaps they could put a very bright colour at the bottom of the grooves which would make it very obvious once they had worn away!

[Damon]

The rule is that as long as the tyres have grooves at the beginning of the stint they are legal. It is only if tyres are bolted on to the car already without grooves that it is illegal.

You're right Mark that rules are rules and this is no more true than in F1 so if anyone had been in breach they would have been penalized. As they weren't they cannot have done anything against the rules.

[steve nielsen]

that's what they've been doing for ages, and still the rules say that if the grooves disapear the tyre must have less grip, well, that does'nt seem to be the case for Michelin.

[climb]

This kind of analisys shows what I've said in another thread (slicks).
Bringing slicks back would solve a serious problem of rule-tricking.
Instead of having true and false grooved tires, let's have slicks for everyone and we're outta here!

[golem]

No, I think the rules state they're not allowed to wear down below a certain depth... I can remember this because I always figured 'can't they wear them down to a slick like surface by making them a certain way and not changing them?'.

Turns out they're right, and personally I think when it gets enforced it'll be a rude shock for someone.

[Mr V]

Originally posted by JohnSSC


When is Bridgestone going to start asking the officials to enforce this rule?

Any thoughts out there?

John, i don't think that Bridgestone can, if you get a chance to watch the race again, pay close interest to Nick Heidfelds first (??) pit stop, the rear tyres that were put on his car had a serious lack of grooves.

[JohnSSC]

Then it seems that:

1) The "disadvantage" grooved tires were to have (lower cornering speed due to less grip) has been engineered out of the tire. Alonso's times on the baldies were better than on new tires.

2) Since it is the condition of the tire when you put it on and then the condition at the end of the race, one could run most of the race on "worn" tires and get away with it.

3) If slicks are what we more or less end up with, why not stop the foolishness and go back to "real" slicks?

[Mr V]

Originally posted by JohnSSC

3) If slicks are what we more or less end up with, why not stop the foolishness and go back to "real" slicks?

I really wish that Max would listen to the fans

[RWC]

They change the rules on this whenever they feel the need to.
Damon has it right-The current ruling is:"they only need to have legal grooves at the start"

Yes it is stupid-but this is the fia we're talking about

[JohnSSC]

It would be more interesting to go to slicks - might even things up even more between Michelin and Bridgestone or even better, entice Goodyear back in.

[avsfan733]

Originally posted by mr v
I really wish that Max would listen to the fans

That would be nice now wouldn't it!

Originally posted by Damon
The rule is that as long as the tyres have grooves at the beginning of the stint they are legal. It is only if tyres are bolted on to the car already without grooves that it is illegal.

I don't think so, the way i read the rules and have heard from the commentators, they have to have discernable grooves when they come off the car. I don't think the number is specified at the end but they do have to exist. Its amazing that bridgestone hasn't challenged more, it seems to be some sort of gentlemans agreement but that can only go so far

originally posted by Damon
You're right Mark that rules are rules and this is no more true than in F1 so if anyone had been in breach they would have been penalized. As they weren't they cannot have done anything against the rules.

I think that that is a wishful statement as we remember from the discussion of the Benetton fire a few weeks ago

[Hungary 89]

I think the original rule had something to do with the construction of the tyre being such that the tyre would overheat and performance would drop off if the grooves wore away completely I seem to remember they were going to achieve this by making the carcase of the tyre between the outer part (at the bottom of the groove) and the inner surface of the tyre quite thin

I seem to recall that this solution was proposed because as soon as it was announce that grooved tyres would be mandated there was alot of fuss about how it would be policed. By making some rules about the construction the tyres can be checked and deemed legal before the race weekend.

Now it would appear (as always) the boffins have found a way around the overheating problem so that bauld tyres keep performing.

All that said Keep wearing them down, the baulder the better because as we have seen with traction control if The FIA don't feel that they can Police something they simply Legalise it Which will bring back slicks and thats what we all seem to want