The grass roots

[f2boy 460]

Hi folks im just pondering the age old question! what do i do to get my foot on the circuit ladder!!!!? I've been racing ovals since i was eleven and my father did before i came along. ever since i sat in dads capri hot rod with the engine sounding like it was making music to my ears i've been transfixed with cars and bikes! (God bless the v6!) Ive raced minis and won everything there was to do there at my three local tracks and then started with the formula two stock cars at the age of 16 and by the time i was 18 i was ranked 16th in the country out of 650 people. after spending 36 quid on stamps writing to people asking for sponsorship (with a stamped s.a.e in it!) i had one reply! it was a blunt no! ive since retired from the sport due to cost and i'm going to ask one thing. what is going to happen to racing in this country if the youth aren't helped?

[Chris Y]

I'm afraid if you've retired from oval racing due to the cost, then you won't want to do circuit racing!

Seriously, is that what you're looking to do, start on the circuits? Do you have a budget for car purchase?

[GordonG]

With the greatest of respect (and this is in no way intended to start a flame war), 99% of the youth that want to go racing will have to do like 99% of the current racers: work bl00dy hard, get yourself into a good paying job, make some sacrifices and wait till we can pay for it ourselves just like any other hobby!

For almost any grass roots formula, a hobby is all it is. Nobody gets their golf club membership paid for them, so why should racing be different?

None of this detracts from the need to avoid needless increases in costs (arbitrary "safety" rule changes, monopolist charges for race entries or testing etc - again no dig at anyone in particular), but we should never forget motor racing is a great privelege, not a right.

Motor racing has always been expensive, and the preserve of wealthy "gentlemen" who paid to drive or more modestly funded back yard tinkerers who gave up all their spare time and cash to creating something they could race. Your average joe family man has never been able to afford to race - either the time or the money.

So, on a more practical aspect, you need to assess how much of the work in preparing and running the car you can do yourself (from a skills and time commitment PoV). If you can do everything yourself, you need only look at the cost of parts. For something like stock hatch or locost that could be a very few grand. As soon as you start paying anyone to do anything costs rocket. Dont get sucked in by the guys spending £000's on shiny bits that you "need" to go faster - a better set up and driven basic car beats an all singing and dancing car thrown together and driven by an idiot. Also consider travel costs to and from the tracks - either pick local rounds or pick a champ that is focussed on your local area. Start with a cheap, basic car and learn what works in the formula from that before spending money on go faster bits that may not be the best bang for buck.

Looking at your hobby's funding in the longer term, the best advice has got to be to get a vasectomy now, before it's too late cos kids are what does for most of us in the end...

G

[Eddy V]

Well said (written?), Gordon!

[f2boy 460]

haha yeah definetly considering a vasectomy! and yes i understand that motorsport is very expensive ( spending 14 grand in the last winter of my nationals definetly hurt!) but it allways just seems to me that there is an injustice in this world in respects of the money! after all im sure you have raced with people who don't have a great deal of money to throw at the sport but have a tremendous deal of talent. I allways ponder the question "what would happen if they had the money?" I suspect that there are people out there who can't afford but would would be a great deal better than alot of the top flite drivers! (sorry don't mean to be rude to them as they obviously must be of good calibre to get where they are!)

[leonidas]

Have you considered budget rallycross? You can pick up a stockhatch for around £1000; entry fees are about £150-£200 a meeting but for that you get (usually) four sprint races. Most drivers get some sponsorship - local garages and personal/family contacts are often the best bet.

How to get sponsors? Try getting a picture of you and your car in the local paper - that will help. Try writing press releases / reports that sound like something you'd read in Motorsport News - but with a local or 'human interest' angle. Most local papers are desperate for decent stories - and very few people do anything interesting like serious motorsport. Good luck!

[f2boy 460]

and what are the circuit budgets? beleive me if i wanted to enter at the level i left in the stock cars a good 15 grand is needed for a car alone!

[f2boy 460]

ovals are the only thing down here to! ( god bless cornwall! ) and that means an hour and a bit before you even hit the motorway!

[MikeM]

How far is Castle Combe for you? Their Formula Ford championship might be worth a look - equal cars and good close competition. You can get a decent FF for £5K and running it doesn't need to be too expensive (relatively) if you do it yourself and don't bend it. I'm afraid I'm like the others though - saved and paid for it myself!

[Al Weyman]

but it allways just seems to me that there is an injustice in this world in respects of the money! after all im sure you have raced with people who don't have a great deal of money to throw at the sport but have a tremendous deal of talent.

Ain't that life kid, ain't that life.

[Andrew Gunnell]

Although it is not circuits have you thought about looking at hill climbs or sprints? As I think there are a number of venues in Cornwall and Devon, or something completely different, but cheap; production car trials?

[Simon Mason]

Hope this doesnt sound like a lecture but I would like to offer a few points to consider though Gordon you have it pretty much spot on (appart from stock hatch being only a few grand ).

Sponsorship for young drivers is generally about involvement and connection to most of the "sugar daddy" type sponsors. There is no commercial value in sponsoring someone who nobody has heard of so corporate sponsorship is never going to start a career unless tied in with other business interests or extreme luck gets involved.

If a kind benefactor sponsors you know, what about next year and the year after, if you disapear what was the value to him .

I can give you a tip though. When I put drivers into cars I don't pick them because of how fast they are, I know they are fast and we all know theres more like them. I pick them because they have experience and cool heads. Experience thier hard earned cash and life compromises to go racing paid for.

With all due respect because I'm sure you would any of us on an oval but its not remotely like circuit racing. The car plays a much bigger part on circuit and that is down to driver and mechanical experience to put right and as everyone on here will testify it takes years.

So get yourself a cheap car for a tough race series and go have some fun for yourself as and when you can afford it. Forget chasing a championship until you a have plenty of cash or a few years experience under your belt and who knows in a few years you might get to know a few of the right people and earn a reputation for a being a reliable and quick driver and finaly get the odd drive here and there for peanuts. But it won't happen without you first making the steps

[rcarr]

Stock hatch is the best way, its all relatively equal and if you really are that good....win a championship then get sponsorship?? or try n get your boss to give you maybe, £200 a season, every penny helps!

If you are mechanically minded you should be able to tweak your car easily at low cost!

You can pick up a decent Fiesta XR2 for £2000 or build it yourself! £500 car £1500 worth of safety equipement and Robert is your Mother's brother!

Or if your that good go down the stock car route and a master fabricator?? Fabricate a Spaceframe chassis and stick a decent Vauxhall XE and there you go! Thundersaloon/Superloon!

[Larry J-Croft]

Not sure I agree on how 'horrendously expensive' motor racing is. It really depends on your motivation and expectations. If you just want to race at club level you can defray cost by doing the work yourself as previously mentioned - I always have done and enjoy it as much as the racing - and never prepare a car from new yourself, always buy one that someone else has spent the serious pound notes on. My first season was with the MGOC in a competitive MG Montego, it cost £1500 I did 8 races and sold it for £1500 and more importantly had a great time. I have incrementally moved up to the Monoposto series in an old F3 car, but even so my budget is still about £5k for a season as long as I keep it in one piece. Cheap series would be the aformentioned MGOC, Triumph TRs, 750 Stock hatch, and dare I say it even those funny French snail things. Once you are in the system you would be surprised what deals you can make and also maybe with some results behind you have good grounds for approaching sponors.
(That said, when I fill out the commentary sheet for a race meeting I often declare my other hobbies as 'lying to my wife about the cost of racing the car').

[f2boy 460]

glad i found this forum and sorry for the late reply from me as have just woken up from nite shift! think i might have a look into the stock hatches and the formula ford. think everybody is right and it is just a case of me working hard and trying harder! gana play with the f2 for a while and do some research! thank you everybody for your time and replies! and if you do see a tall cornishman at your next meet it could well be me!

[rcarr]

Originally Posted by f2boy 460

if you do see a tall cornishman at your next meet it could well be me!

How tall? If you are over 6ft, dont try a Formula Ford! Stick to saloons!
I am now 6ft2, stopped fiting in single seaters at the age of about 15!

[Ali Rushforth]

Buy yourself a nice production based car, doesn't have to be fancy, but does have to be 2wd and under 2.0l.

Join the Classic Sports Car club and register for TinTops (Costs £95 but you get a years subscription to Track and Race Car Mag)

Entry fees are around £245 mark, but for that you get 30 mins qualifying, 40 min races which include driver changes (or run round car if you're on your own), so sharing the car halves the cost!!

You even get pit garages!! (where they have them)

check out www.tintops.org.uk

PS; I have a class D spec mini for sale!!!

[f2boy 460]

yeah 6ft3 and as bit was thinking are there any classes for modded classics? got a lovely anglia at home with a nice v6 or cosworth lump? or i have my old shillaber pinto under the bench. really appreciate your replies! i will raed what you say tommorrow as night shift in the labs loom again!

[JohnD]

F2boy,
Quote: "it allways just seems to me that there is an injustice in this world in respects of the money! after all im sure you have raced with people who don't have a great deal of money to throw at the sport but have a tremendous deal of talent." In other words,"it's not fair!"

No respect at all. Grow up. You must have heard that the people who made it big time in motorsport had to risk everything to get where they did. Mansell, re-mortages his house (wife and two kids at the time) to keep racing when times were hard. Or those who nearly made it like Perry McCarthy, who used every trick, every favour he could call in, chutzpah, bare faced cheek and every penny he could earn, to keep racing and demonstrate his talent. Even then, despite his talent, he never made it to the big time.

It's up to you, mate! Bootstraps!
The very best of luck to you!
John

[Simon Mason]

f2 you sound like someone who wants to win races eventually. If thats the case forget stock hatch. On the face of it its brilliant and if making up numbers will keep you happy then it is indeed very cheap but winning races overall is into 5 figures just to build a quick car let alone run it.

The cheapest series to get into and race at the moment with booming grids and tough competition are the Seloc BMW series http://www.selocmotorsport.com/ or the MaX5 Championship www.max5racing.com. But whatever you think about plan 3 years ahead. Year 1 and 2 just learn racing as and when then year 3 try it seriously or you could be in debt before your competitive enough to warrant the expense.

[Al Weyman]

And that BMW championship now has the advantage of being taken under the wing of the Classic Touring Car Race Club and they are a good club and good bunch of guys who will make you extremelly welcome. Once you have joined the club you can then register and enter any of their other 5 championships for no further costs. Have a look at their site as there is a large range of possibilities to choose from and some very good racing to be had and you ain't gonna be in the middle of a load of little hatch buzz boxes.

[f2boy 460]

Originally Posted by JohnD

F2boy,
Quote:

No respect at all. Grow up. You must have heard that the people who made it big time in motorsport had to risk everything to get where they did. Mansell, re-mortages his house (wife and two kids at the time) to keep racing when times were hard. Or those who nearly made it like Perry McCarthy, who used every trick, every favour he could call in, chutzpah, bare faced cheek and every penny he could earn, to keep racing and demonstrate his talent. Even then, despite his talent, he never made it to the big time.

It's up to you, mate! Bootstraps!
The very best of luck to you!
John

yes yes there are the few but then what about the few that couldn't drive a chiken with a stick that had everything paid for! and as for respect i think that when i told mr mansell when i was twelve that he was my ultimate hero and he signed my hat ( which still adorns my wall nxt to a picture i paid a fortune of depicting him going over the line punching the air!) was a sign of great respect. I RESPECT EVERY HARD WORKING PERSON IN ANY FORMULA!

Thank you for the link to the bmw site and i'm going to look into that aswell. thanks everybody for there constructive comments and encouragement. have to leave the old web now till monday! bleedin bumpers to make and an engine to fettle! thanks folks

[Peter Harding]

If you are considering single seaters, then look at the costs and popularity of Formula Vee.