Grand-Am 2013 Discussion

[joeb]

There are rumors that next season's DP grids will be a little bit bigger than this season on average. There is the new GX class also showing up this season, and there may be a new GT entry as well.

The schedule has a few new tracks - Road Atlanta and Circuit of the Americas, and Kansas, so that should provide some excitement.

Date	Race
January 4-6, 2013	Roar Before the Rolex 24
January 24-27, 2013	Rolex 24 At Daytona
February 28 - March 2, 2013	Circuit of the Americas
April 3-6, 2013	Barber Motorsports Park
April 18-20, 2013	Road Atlanta
May 31 - June 1, 2013	Chevrolet GRAND-AM Detroit 200
June 13-15, 2013	Mid-Ohio Sports Car Course
June 28-30, 2013	Sahlen's Six Hours of The Glen
July 26-26, 2013	Indianapolis Motor Speedway
August 8-10, 2013	Road America
August 16-17, 2013	Kansas Speedway
September 6-7, 2013	Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca
September 26-28, 2013	Lime Rock Park

[Canada ALMS fan]

Sounds like the GT class will get smaller, not surprising with the RX8s getting mothballed or re-bodied as GX cars. I hope to see more full season R8s, 458s, and some full season Aston participation. With the uncertainty of the merger I wonder if there may be some additional Porsches with fewer prep 2 cars? The Cup car is the least expensive way to go racing until the details of the unification get sorted, plus it will have some resale value regardless of the direction things go.

[Mike Hedlund]

Originally Posted by Canada ALMS fan

Sounds like the GT class will get smaller, not surprising with the RX8s getting mothballed or re-bodied as GX cars. I hope to see more full season R8s, 458s, and some full season Aston participation. With the uncertainty of the merger I wonder if there maybe be some additional Porsches with fewer prep 2 cars? The Cup car is the least expensive way to go racing until the details of the unification get sorted, plus it will have some resale value regardless of the direction things go.

The Cup car is the most expensive Rolex GT car to build rite now, and this is coming from a big Porsche fan. The base car is $220k and it costs around $200-250k in upgrades to make it competitive in Rolex (and can't be raced anywhere else). The Grand-Am 458 is $350k delivered from Ferrari. The tubers are around $225k from my understanding.

-mike

[Canada ALMS fan]

Thanks Mike, was unaware of all the upgrade costs. Midweek Motorsport was saying a couple of weeks back it is almost impossible to buy a 2013 so one would have to buy a used one?
Will you be running some GA this year or too early to know?

[Mike Hedlund]

Originally Posted by Canada ALMS fan

Thanks Mike, was unaware of all the upgrade costs. Will you be running some GA this year or too early to know?

My pleasure, I didn't find out until after I had actually raced one and looked into the costs myself! I'll be doing the North American Endurance Championship + 1 or 2 other Rolex races throughout the year. Primary focus will be in ALMS GTC for 2013 though.

-mike

[Canada ALMS fan]

See you at Sebring.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Mike Hedlund

The Cup car is the most expensive Rolex GT car to build rite now, and this is coming from a big Porsche fan. The base car is $220k and it costs around $200-250k in upgrades to make it competitive in Rolex (and can't be raced anywhere else). The Grand-Am 458 is $350k delivered from Ferrari. The tubers are around $225k from my understanding.

-mike

Slightly off topic here, but what makes it cost $200,000 extra to run In GA? The lug nuts don't cost that much right?

[HJJ]

Originally Posted by Canada ALMS fan

Midweek Motorsport was saying a couple of weeks back it is almost impossible to buy a 2013 so one would have to buy a used one?

There's a couple available.

http://www.paulmillerracing.com/2009...-for-sale.html

http://www.racer.com/directory/cars-...listing/76027/

[Mike Hedlund]

Originally Posted by joeb

Slightly off topic here, but what makes it cost $200,000 extra to run Ind GA? The lug nuts don't cost that much right?

RSR transmission, modifications to get the transmission to mount to the chassis and engine, 4.0L motor from PMNA, exhaust changes, bumper work to fit modified exhaust, shock/springs open, some RSR suspension bits, completely different brake package including master cyl's etc, body modifications in the rear to fit the Continental tires, rear wing, door modifications (no windows), quick oil fill mod, electronic oil level display, quick fuel fill mod, windscreen tear-offs, electronics update to allow ecu map swapping on the fly, cockpit adjustable swaybars.

I'm sure there's more.. someone who's actually built one could probably list off 10 or 20 other enhancements. Lol!

-mike

[Mike Hedlund]

Originally Posted by Canada ALMS fan

Midweek Motorsport was saying a couple of weeks back it is almost impossible to buy a 2013 so one would have to buy a used one?

Normal 2013 Cup's are available, mine is shipping from Germany soon. Don't know about the RSR's though...

-mike

[Canada ALMS fan]

Originally Posted by Mike Hedlund

Normal 2013 Cup's are available, mine is shipping from Germany soon. Don't know about the RSR's though...

-mike

So which of the mods required to run in Grand Am will you need to do to run in the ALMS in GTC? I was under the impression the only difference between the GTC and GA spec was the single wheel lug. This is why we need a global standard for a couple of GT classes...

[Speed-King]

I think you *can* run a GTC spec Porsche in GA with slight modifications - just don't expect to be competitive. I seem to remember only two of the TRG cars being up to the latest spec at last year's Rolex24 and NGT running their GTC car, which was also quite a bit overweight.

[Dead-Eye]

Originally Posted by Mike Hedlund

Normal 2013 Cup's are available, mine is shipping from Germany soon. Don't know about the RSR's though...

-mike

Is that a 997 or already a 991?

[Mike Hedlund]

Originally Posted by Dead-Eye

Is that a 997 or already a 991?

997. 991 Cup's are only available to Supercup teams.

Originally Posted by Canada ALMS fan

So which of the mods required to run in Grand Am will you need to do to run in the ALMS in GTC? I was under the impression the only difference between the GTC and GA spec was the single wheel lug. This is why we need a global standard for a couple of GT classes...

Almost none of those mods are allowed in GTC, which is the pitfall of building a Rolex GT car.. you can't race it anywhere else. GTC cars start out as as-delivered Cup cars from Porsche then get about $50-100k of mods (to max them out to the rules) for durability and endurance racing-- radiators, axles, clutch, fuel quick fill mod, oil quick fill mod, electronic oil level, brake ducts, damper/springs, modified stock brake calipers, bumper bars, and lighting.

All of the GTC tweaks can easily be removed or put back to stock to run the car in IMSA GT3 Challenge or the Carrera Cups.

-mike

[Pandamasque]

Originally Posted by Mike Hedlund

...which is the pitfall of building a Rolex GT car.. you can't race it anywhere else...

This statement is fair about GrandAm as a whole. Which is ludicrous in today's motorsport, especially when it comes to sports car racing.

[Dead-Eye]

Originally Posted by Mike Hedlund

997. 991 Cup's are only available to Supercup teams.

Thanks, I think that was exactly the point made on MWM - that no 991 Cup cars are available yet for most customers.

[Canada ALMS fan]

Originally Posted by Pandamasque

This statement is fair about GrandAm as a whole. Which is ludicrous in today's motorsport, especially when it comes to sports car racing.

Audi and Ferrari had expressed these concerns previously as well, seeing as they are providing these cars on a customer basis. There is zero chance of them seeing a return on their investment if they wish to have teams representing their marque in this series. It would make much more sense for the series to adopt cars "off the shelf" that can race elsewhere too. Car counts go up, costs go down, everybody wins.

Mike, your insight is genuinely appreciated as always.

More on the topic of the thread title, anyone hearing a preliminary number of expected entries for Daytona?

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by Canada ALMS fan

Audi and Ferrari had expressed these concerns previously as well, seeing as they are providing these cars on a customer basis. There is zero chance of them seeing a return on their investment if they wish to have teams representing their marque in this series. It would make much more sense for the series to adopt cars "off the shelf" that can race elsewhere too. Car counts go up, costs go down, everybody wins.

Mike, your insight is genuinely appreciated as always.

More on the topic of the thread title, anyone hearing a preliminary number of expected entries for Daytona?

I think the Audi and Ferrari situation is different, seeing how their GA cars are spec'ed down, whereas the Porsche has to be spec'ed up in order to be competitive in GA.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by Mike Hedlund

All of the GTC tweaks can easily be removed or put back to stock to run the car in IMSA GT3 Challenge or the Carrera Cups.

-mike

Always nice to have an insider with the straight word about buying and building cars, and thanks for sharing with us fans.
Assumed the mods had to be easy to remove since I had seen some GTC cars running in GT3 challenge races with the leader lights and ALMS stickers still on board. Did not realize the cars were that far apart from GTC to GA, seems like a high price to get basically the same times.
From alms.com results from Lime Rock Mike Piera / Spencer Pumpelly 55.730 145 Porsche 911 GT3 Cup
From grnad-am.com from Lime Rock Doyle, B/Pumpelly, S 159 0:55.267 86.219 Porsche GT3 / N/A

Looked for a driver in both races, and was in a TRG prepared car both times as well, to get as even a comparison as I could, Leh Keen was also in both in a GT3.

[Jonerz]

Originally Posted by Canada ALMS fan

More on the topic of the thread title, anyone hearing a preliminary number of expected entries for Daytona?

DP:
01 Ganassi BMW/Riley
02 Ganassi BMW/Riley
2 Starworks Ford/Riley
5 AER Corvette DP
6 MSR Ford/Riley
7 Starworks Ford/Riley
8 Starworks Ford/Riley
9 AER Corvette DP
10 WTR Corvette DP
42 Sahlen's BMW/Riley
43 Sahlen's BMW/Riley
60 MSR Ford/Riley
76 Krohn Ford/Lola?
90 SoD Corvette DP
99 GBSR Corvette DP
X Potolicchio Corvette DP
X Matt Connelly Chevy/Riley?
X Matt Connelly Chevy/Riley?

GT
03 ESM Ferrari
12 Alliance Porsche?
17 Burtin Porsche
18 Muhlner USA Porsche
19 Muhlner USA Porsche
20 Engstler/Mitchum Porsche
22 Bullett Porsche
23 AJR Porsche
24 AJR/ Competition Porsche?
30 NGT Porsche?
31 NGT Porsche?
32 Orbit Porsche?
34 Orbit Porsche?
36 Yellow Dragon RX-8?
44 Magnus Porsche
46 Baughman Corvette
48 Paul Miller Porsche? (Selling the car?)
51 APR Audi
55 Acumen Porsche?
56 AF Waltrip Ferrari
57 Stevenson Camaro
59 Brumos Porsche
62 Scuderia Corse Ferrari
63 Scuderia Corse Ferrari?
64 TRG Porsche?
65 TRG Porsche?
66 TRG Porsche
67 TRG Porsche
68 TRG Porsche
69 AIM/FXDD Ferrari
73 Horton/Park Place Dealers Porsche
82 Dick Greer Porsche
87 Racer's Edge Viper???
93 Turner M3
94 Turner M3
X Flying Lizards? DP possible?
X Matt Connelly Porsche/GTO/Camaro?

GX
X McMahon Lotus
38 BGB Cayman
40 Dempsey Mazda?
41 Dempsey Mazda?
70 Speedsource Mazda
71 Speedsource Mazda?
74 Horton/Luna-C Cayman

60ish? We'll be lucky to get all listed above, particularly the '?' entries. But drop a couple as pure rumors and they could be replaced by other rumors, including Aston Martin.

Chris

[Salamus]

Originally Posted by Jonerz

DP:
2 Starworks Ford/Riley
7 Starworks Ford/Riley
8 Starworks Ford/Riley

Different teams now, no?

[Mike Hedlund]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

Did not realize the cars were that far apart from GTC to GA, seems like a high price to get basically the same times.

Ya, lap times between GTC and Rolex GT cars are pretty similar.. on more wide-open horsepower tracks the Rolex cars have a big advantage (more power, less drag). On the more technical tracks the GTC cars have the advantage (tires provide more grip and slightly more downforce). The GTC cars also run a small restrictor -- even compared to the GT3 Challenge cars, it's noticeable... we had a combined practice at Petit and I couldn't pass them on the back straight unless they lifted.

Anyway, enough about cars. The Daytona 24 grid is looking pretty solid. I think the question is, how many of those entries are going to be full season... with the merger talks a lot of people are coming out of the woodwork to do one-off races in both series next year....

-mike

[Canada ALMS fan]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

I think the Audi and Ferrari situation is different, seeing how their GA cars are spec'ed down, whereas the Porsche has to be spec'ed up in order to be competitive in GA.

Great point.

[Canada ALMS fan]

Originally Posted by Mike Hedlund

The Daytona 24 grid is looking pretty solid. I think the question is, how many of those entries are going to be full season... with the merger talks a lot of people are coming out of the woodwork to do one-off races in both series next year....

-mike

As always there are a lot of one offs for Daytona. APR had mentioned 2 R8s possibly full season, would be nice to see the other 2 R8 efforts from last season back as well. The Ft. Lauderdale 458s would be great too! It would be nice to see some folks like the Robertsons bring their toys back to the ALMS for a final farewell.
I wonder if Adrian Fernandez will show up with an effort anywhere in 2013?

[Jonerz]

Originally Posted by Salamus

Different teams now, no?

Nope, at least one of the Starworks cars deserves a '?', though. I don't know where any of Peter's funding is coming from next year outside Alex Popow, and he could be involved with Potolicchio's new program - they name of which I believe has been announced, but has slipped my mind.

I put Enzo's effort down for one car, sans number at the bottom of the DP list. His team could be good for two cars as well, apparently.

And as has been discussed above, there will be a massive net-loss in entries post-Daytona. Though the Marsh Racing Corvette should be back.

Chris