"Getting back on track"

[Greem]

The documents we've all been waiting for - presented here without judgement:

https://www.motorsportuk.org/restart/

[ron1902]

i am itching to get back trackside..but just wondering if according to something i read if just a post chief and flaggie on post would suffice..plus if ppe is to be worn or not..medical intervention not to be given in event of incident. just to await help..i feel personaly i may not attend any meetings this year mainly due to some uncertanty and other commitments..hope all returns to some sort of normality ... stay safe all

[ascarracinguk]

Well for those who do clubbies in deepest darkest winter nothing has changed then,...we're used to manning up posts with minimal marshals!!!

Just looked at the guidance....1 post chief and 1 flag marshal per post could be tricky....especially with double waved yellow and safety car board, although not impossible.. depends on how the guidance determines 'post' though...could you for instance have 2 'posts' 5m apart, one for the blue flags, the other for yellows?

Also slightly confused with the part that says maximum 2 marshals per post, 1 post chief and one flag marshal...but it goes on to handle an incident....well neither of those can do it so you would require at least a 3rd marshal 'per post' surely? again, depends on their definition of a post I suppose.

It will probably mean more safety cars, red flags and use of fire tenders USA style but im sure people can cope with the 'disruption' while things get back to normal.

I guess there will be more disappointed people not being selected for more popular circuits and events too....but im sure people (hope people) would be understanding given the situation we are in.

[Greem]

There's been plenty of discussion elsewhere and a proportion of it has been "I'll be hanging up the probans then", unfortunately.

Baby steps first, then we'll see how it goes, and then we'll make changes, and back to "see how it goes", etc etc.

In terms of overall numbers, I've been at Rockingham before where we've had fewer marshals across all disciplines than covered Copse at the Grand Prix (or almost any post at a touring car meeting!) and those ran OK. They were hard work, I'll admit that, but they ran pretty well.

We live in interesting times, that's for sure!

[Asp]

The guidance certainly does raise as many questions as it answers - but it is also said that there will be more detail to follow, and certain things will probably change in line with government guidance as it's issued, so that's not intended as a criticism. Indeed it's good to see steps being taken and the encouragement to "Get back on track".

Certain things are obvious fixes and indeed might even become permanent changes - eg. electronic sign-on before the event, think of the reduced queues at big events and saving of paper!
Certain things have potential - "All reports to be issued by digital or telephonic means". There's be practical issues in this idea: but imagine being able to email your written report direct to race control mid-race; allowing for instant action to be taken especially on endurance races. A more immediate fix to realise this aim could result in excess radio traffic so would require more careful management but extra radio channels can fix that.
Incident handling has the biggest question marks over it - but if there's a willingness to try something different I'm sure something can be achieved. I don't think a winning formula will be hit first time - but providing people are willing to attend; respect social distancing and try different things (whilst still being safe) I'm sure a scheme will develop. There's a few more weeks to see the detail develop yet!

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by Greem

There's been plenty of discussion elsewhere and a proportion of it has been "I'll be hanging up the probans then", unfortunately.

What reasons were given?

If it’s people worried for their own safety/ catching COVID, then it’s understandable....but no one is forcing you to volunteer

If it’s because they might not be chosen for a popular event because marshal numbers are capped, then quite frankly it’s just a selfish, and in my opinion the wrong attitude...at the end of the day this is a temporary thing, that as marshals we should be helping to fascilitate through a tough period, knowing that in a years time we will be back to normal...rather than throwing hissy fits because of the chance you may not be chosen to marshal BTCC or F1.....

[ron1902]

i am all for trying new ideas to help things return.but at the moment with no confirmed dates i cannot say if i will be able to attend meeting as they may clash with other commitments this year.its certainly going to be different and if that involves not being chosen then so be it.we can only hope that things improve and we can once more enjoy being part of the orange army

[Greem]

Originally Posted by ascarracinguk

What reasons were given?

Some people have found their interest isn't as high as it was; others have found different things to do; others still have decided the risk level is too high for them/their family.

Some however are just, as you put it, having a hissy fit at the fact we're not going straight back to where we were and that's a completely understandable reaction too TBH.

I can only speak for myself but I've definitely found myself having lowered mental capacity to deal with challenges since this all started. I've found myself having to take "time out" occasionally work-wise and difficult things of all shapes and sizes are making me much more tired than I used to be. Operating at a continual elevated stress level is known to be tiring, however high or low that stress is, and knee-jerk reactions are often a result.

I'm still very much in two minds about the whole "do I volunteer or not" issue but that's based more around the fact that there I have vulnerable family members and I don't want to affect them directly or indirectly. Yet part of me really wants to spend some time back trackside...

[bella]

Originally Posted by Greem

I can only speak for myself but I've definitely found myself having lowered mental capacity to deal with challenges since this all started. I've found myself having to take "time out" occasionally work-wise and difficult things of all shapes and sizes are making me much more tired than I used to be. Operating at a continual elevated stress level is known to be tiring, however high or low that stress is, and knee-jerk reactions are often a result.

i imagine "this is change and i don't like it" is causing a lot of people to consider walking away too. like you've described there, this is a weird mental state to be dealing with anything, let alone change in the places we used to find comfort and enjoy. there's a lot to adapt to - i'm finding getting my head around wearing a mask (or is it the other way around) to be something particularly weird for example, whereas in reality it's nothing, it's just like wearing socks. but i think when we're at home in this weird state it's too easy to create a whole load of issues in the mind that simply don't exist, or take tiny changes and issues and spin them wildly out of context and associate thoughts with them that don't belong. something those of us in the depression/anxiety spiral are pretty much professionals at.

for what it's worth there's an abundance of regulations for those in the paddock. based on that, the risk is going to be extremely low, far lower than something like going to the supermarket or even going for a walk at the moment.

[Greem]

Originally Posted by bella

something those of us in the depression/anxiety spiral are pretty much professionals at.

Amen, sister.

for what it's worth there's an abundance of regulations for those in the paddock. based on that, the risk is going to be extremely low, far lower than something like going to the supermarket or even going for a walk at the moment.

Supermarkets are hell-holes at the moment. The incredible selfishness of some people who are wilfully deciding to ignore or go against the guidelines that have been put in place to keep them safe is mind-bending. I had an actual out loud WTF moment last week when someone pretty much trod on my toes to get a jar of jam off the shelf; they "did not like it, it was rude, there was no need for it, how dare I" etc etc and "don't worry mate we don't have it".

When I pointed out that they didn't know if I did the comments stopped and they moved away pretty sharpish.

People, honestly. Can't live with 'em, can't live with 'em

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by Greem

Some people have found their interest isn't as high as it was; others have found different things to do; others still have decided the risk level is too high for them/their family.

Some however are just, as you put it, having a hissy fit at the fact we're not going straight back to where we were and that's a completely understandable reaction too TBH.

I can only speak for myself but I've definitely found myself having lowered mental capacity to deal with challenges since this all started. I've found myself having to take "time out" occasionally work-wise and difficult things of all shapes and sizes are making me much more tired than I used to be. Operating at a continual elevated stress level is known to be tiring, however high or low that stress is, and knee-jerk reactions are often a result.

I'm still very much in two minds about the whole "do I volunteer or not" issue but that's based more around the fact that there I have vulnerable family members and I don't want to affect them directly or indirectly. Yet part of me really wants to spend some time back trackside...

I'm not a marshal so am generalising somewhat here but I wonder if this is a bit like 'this is what I'd do if I won the lottery'. (Bear with me...)
We can (and probably do) all theorise about what we would do in this situation, but without actually being there, we don't know how we really would react. Maybe, until you know how the world now it when motorsport is allowed to happen again, what the new regulations & guidelines really are, and what the format of the meetings you're invited to attend you haven't enough information to actually make the decision? (I base this on the experience of my wife. My step son was born with a major heart defect and at 6 days old required major surgery to correct this. Apparently his mother remained calm throughout. As I say, I wasn't involved at the time. Whereas she's always thought that if something like that happened to her, she would just go to pieces. Oh, and as a footnote, he's now a healthy & strapping 26 year old builder, thank you NHS!)

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by bella

i'm finding getting my head around wearing a mask (or is it the other way around) to be something particularly weird for example, whereas in reality it's nothing, it's just like wearing socks.

I agree that, on the whole, humans have an inherent resistance to change.

I think the masks element is slightly different though. A lot of our cues when conversing with someone come from facial inflections that are hidden behind a mask. Interestingly, the subject of masks was discussed on TTT this week, and it was noted how the changes they make to vocal patterns can also cause confusion.

One only has to look at the way masks are used in media (film, comic etc.) to see how they impart a character on an individual. Or to put it another way, how they remove the underlying character.

Vendetta, Hannibal Lecter, Jigsaw puppet, Darth Vader, Jason Vorhees. Do we associate masks with evil character, or evil character with masks?

[Greem]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

We can (and probably do) all theorise about what we would do in this situation, but without actually being there, we don't know how we really would react.

Your wife's experience is a cracker of an illustration.

There's a definite contributory factor there. If I might put a motorsport slant on it, I had no idea how I'd react when I was witness to my first "biggie". I hoped I'd be fine, that training would kick in - and it did, I almost auto-piloted through it, made the right calls, covered the right things and everyone came out OK in the end (although extrication and hospitalisation were required for one person). In other parts of my life I've been involved in mountain rescues (not as a victim!) and am the sort of person who stops for recent RTCs, so I'm already predisposed to not panic.

I have however seen people freeze in those situations. And there are other far less physically stressful situations that my brain melts in and renders me all but useless, not that I'm much use most of the time anyway

But back to your point, I think the current situation is pushing some people beyond their previously accepted limits; some are handling it fine, some are coping, and others aren't and that's all perfectly normal.

[bella]

Originally Posted by Greem

Supermarkets are hell-holes at the moment. The incredible selfishness of some people who are wilfully deciding to ignore or go against the guidelines that have been put in place to keep them safe is mind-bending. I had an actual out loud WTF moment last week when someone pretty much trod on my toes to get a jar of jam off the shelf; they "did not like it, it was rude, there was no need for it, how dare I" etc etc and "don't worry mate we don't have it".

When I pointed out that they didn't know if I did the comments stopped and they moved away pretty sharpish.

People, honestly. Can't live with 'em, can't live with 'em

if a typical supermarket basket is used as an indicator of inflation, then the customers are surely a barometer of the nation... i've found a reasonable indicator of "absolutely oblivious" is single use petrol station gloves. or a n95 standard mask but walking the wrong way up a one-way aisle every visit has at least one out-loud "REALLY?" moment.

i try and reason and decide that deep down, a lot of people are scared and don't know how to process the feeling and the reasons they're feeling it. that manifests itself in a lot of posts on here too. i'm not sure how we help people feel less fear so they can get back to their comfort zones, be they trackside, in bars and restaurants, or with friends. but resuming that life, albeit it with concessions until we have this managed, is going to be key to putting things in perspective and being able to look back at our quarantined selves with compassion and understanding.

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

We can (and probably do) all theorise about what we would do in this situation, but without actually being there, we don't know how we really would react. Maybe, until you know how the world now it when motorsport is allowed to happen again, what the new regulations & guidelines really are, and what the format of the meetings you're invited to attend you haven't enough information to actually make the decision? (I base this on the experience of my wife. My step son was born with a major heart defect and at 6 days old required major surgery to correct this. Apparently his mother remained calm throughout. As I say, I wasn't involved at the time. Whereas she's always thought that if something like that happened to her, she would just go to pieces. Oh, and as a footnote, he's now a healthy & strapping 26 year old builder, thank you NHS!)

this is a great post. glad your stepson is owning it now! i firmly believe we all need to take ourselves out of our comfort zones on a reasonably regular basis to challenge what we think of ourselves and what we can cope with. humans are exceptional, and the fact that so many have become scared of so much and filled with so much hate and bitterness is pretty depressing in itself. one of the best things ever as a woman is watching fellow ladies do something they thought they'd struggle with - even something as seemingly simple as going for a jog or learning a new skill - and realising just how much is within their grasp.

[Mike_Powell]

One factor that hasn't been mentioned, and one that I know is applicable, is the ever rising avarage age of marshals. I know of 3 marshals from my area who have decided to retire their probans, and that's 80 years experience lost. These are senior track officials who are all over 60. I'm heading that way rapidly, but I don't have a direct family who will have grown accustomed to having me around at weekends this year; again, I know of several marshals who have familial pressure.

Whether people choose not to continue is their own decision to make. After all, we are all volunteers.

[Fierce Flaggy]

I'm looking forward to being trackside again. I am a Track Marshal (Flag only) having upgraded at the start of this year and my concern is if a major incident occurs and requires intervention or medical attendance if there are only two marshals to a post eg: two track marshals or a PC and flaggy. As a flaggy I am happy to step up as I was asked to act as Flag and Post Chief on post by myself while I was a trainee due to shortage of marshals and we are all volunteers so it's individual decisions on whether to attend or not. I do appreciate the efforts and measures that Motorsport UK are putting in place for our safety as it's been an extremely difficult task but it'll be good to return to racing and marshalling once it is safe to do so.

Until then, stay safe everyone

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by Greem

I'm still very much in two minds about the whole "do I volunteer or not" issue but that's based more around the fact that there I have vulnerable family members and I don't want to affect them directly or indirectly. Yet part of me really wants to spend some time back trackside...

I'd love to be able to get back, but I feel this is too hurried. 'Let's find a way of getting racing back ASAP' to me is causing too much of a compromise.

Clearly there's some urgency to get some sort of marshalling method in place as there's pressure to enable the double GP. Then BTCC and GTs have issued calendars and also will need supporting. And then clubs, with variable degrees of thought will want to get something going if they can. For me we should pause longer to see what the prevailing conditions are and then see if it can be done.

The biggest thing for me is that if followed it's making marshalling into a job instead of a hobby and that makes me reluctant. It's yet to be seen how the racing will proceed but it's also a strong possibility that meetings may have fewer races and long stops so I get neither the marshalling fun or the racing fun (although if clubs have the sense to combine some fields, possibly crossing club boundaries, those few races could potentially have some huge and entertaining grids). Let's hope.

Given the personal risk of the virus and I've concluded that this season probably isn't for me. Progress of the disease may change that, and we may find it's fine, but I'm starting at no and may revise upwards.

Originally Posted by Asp

Certain things have potential - "All reports to be issued by digital or telephonic means". There's be practical issues in this idea: but imagine being able to email your written report direct to race control mid-race!

This is something I've been talking about for several years. With PC/flag often being combined how much difficulty would it be to have a tablet on each post? Run timing to help the flags on long races. Pre-populated list of car numbers and some pre-listed check boxes. Click on car number, click on action (track limits/ran wide/overtook under yellows) and another car number if necessary and hit send. It could either email in or even just show as a thread so everyone can see it. Report is timed and instantly in the hands of RC. Programming can be anywhere from 'open a post in FB' to some clever trickery as per above, this is definitely a possible step forward.

[Mike_Powell]

Originally Posted by Woolley

This is something I've been talking about for several years. With PC/flag often being combined how much difficulty would it be to have a tablet on each post? Run timing to help the flags on long races. Pre-populated list of car numbers and some pre-listed check boxes. Click on car number, click on action (track limits/ran wide/overtook under yellows) and another car number if necessary and hit send. It could either email in or even just show as a thread so everyone can see it. Report is timed and instantly in the hands of RC. Programming can be anywhere from 'open a post in FB' to some clever trickery as per above, this is definitely a possible step forward.

Sadly there are a number of tracks that don't have the capability to do this, normally down to bandwidth restrictions. We always have live timing up on our phones, especially on long distance races, which gives the flag marshal notice of who's pitted etc.
Personally I think it's a great idea, especially as a lot of the fields for an incident report could be self populating but it's about as likely to happen as every driver taking the correct action with flags !

[Stuart H]

http://www.orci.co.uk/News/2020/05/O...-22nd-May-2020

That's what the governing body for oval racing are doing in the uk. I don't know if the msa have issued any statements at all?

[S griffin]

That’s good that UK oval racing is due to be back. Of course it will be easier to manage things in a stadium environment. And it also helps that in the States NASCAR has started again, so they could pick up a few tips from there

[bella]

Originally Posted by Stuart H

http://www.orci.co.uk/News/2020/05/O...-22nd-May-2020

That's what the governing body for oval racing are doing in the uk. I don't know if the msa have issued any statements at all?

motorsport uk haven't issued any blanket statements but circuits are re-opening for testing shortly when they've set up systems and things for remote driver sign on and made facilities covid-compatible.

out of the public eye, the big events have their own plans for organising their side of things that they're communicating with teams and stuff, such as the procedural details, scrutineering and checking driver kit, paddock layouts, what they expect of individual staff, and what they expect of teams.

from what i've seen so far, the emphasis is on keeping teams operating as separate units or households and not allowing any mixing with others. no visits to race control, communication via technology only.

the lack of publishing these documents seems to be leading lots of folk, particularly spectators, into feeling that there are no concrete plans and that nothing is being thought of, but it's definitely not that way in practice.

[crmalcolm]

Seems sensible to me to not publicise the plans too wildly.

We regularly witness individuals with no real knowledge of a subject post their 'authoritative' position on a subject via social media.

People struggle to accept that they are not specialists in a subject, and assert that they know best. Response to COVID-19 is just one example.

The only people who need to be involved with the planning are the medical and circuit professionals at this stage - engaging with key stakeholders as required.

No plan survives first contact with the enemy. In today's society, that could read 'no plan survives without a million Facebook/Twitter disagreements'

[S griffin]

Indeed. It is better to try and keep this confidential where you can. It’s not in their interest to publish it for any Tom, Dick or Harry. Get your plan sorted out behind closed doors and listen to expert medical advice. If it was out in the open you risk getting the wrong sort of publicity if you get it wrong.

[bella]

i think we see rightful concern here and elsewhere from our friends in orange that it’s not going to be a great experience, but i’ll be honest it’s going to be pretty miserable for us *in* the paddock as well. but if we don’t do this, there’s not going to be a lot left of the sport to return to next season.

we can all appreciate how much earlier the “nope” limit kicks in when you’re doing it for the love of the sport and not the paycheque. but if we don’t over-invest in the sport this year we’ll really lose out in the long term.

the circuits and organisers are doing as much as they possibly can (and more) to keep us safe. you’ll be safer at a closed doors event than you will be at tescos, especially if you put in the effort on your side with your own personal responsibilities like hand sanitiser, social distancing where possible and face coverings.

[Peter Mallett]

MSUK has today issued a statement:

Motorsport UK Opens Throttle on Restarting Motorsport from 4th July


Motorsport UK has announced that in anticipation of motorsport restarting in the UK from 4th July, it is inviting online permit applications from 1st June 2020.
Motorsport is currently suspended throughout the UK until 30th June 2020. Following ongoing positive dialogue with the Department for Culture, Media and Sport and having set out its strategy and anticipated conditions for restarting motorsport disciplines, the governing body is now moving to its next phase of getting the sport back on track. Further details will be communicated following the next Motorsport UK Board meeting of 3rd June.

Any resumption of motorsport is contingent on event organisers demonstrating that they can plan in accordance with the recently published, “Getting Back on Track” guidelines of Motorsport UK, while respecting government guidance on social distancing.

Motorsport UK is also acutely aware that different devolved territories of the UK may be moving at different paces in easing restrictions; any application for an event permit will be subject to approval based on the prevailing government advice. The move is also contingent on governments continuing with measures to open up society and that further restrictions resultant of any additional waves of COVID-19 are not required.
David Richards, chairman of Motorsport UK, commented, “In March, Motorsport UK moved quickly and in line with government to suspend motorsport, while everyone’s priority was restricting the spread of this terrible disease and protecting the NHS. It is now right that, as government has set out plans to ease restrictions, we move in step and introduce the next stage of our phased restart. Unlike many sports, motorsport in the UK is an industry in itself, employing tens of thousands and contributing billions of pounds to the UK economy."
“We always said that, when the conditions were right, we would take a responsible decision to resume motorsport in order to sustain the sport, jobs and the economy. We have explained our plans to government and are fortunate that motorsport takes place outdoors over large controlled spaces. Our plan is that, subject to government advice and ongoing lifting of restrictions, motorsport will resume from 4th July. We are making this announcement now as event organisers, venues, preparation specialists, the supply chain, volunteer Marshals, Officials and Competitors all need time to put in place their plans.”

There will be a number of caveats of granting event permits, including that event organisers commit that their events will be held behind closed doors, appropriate PPE requirements are met, and that each organiser must appoint a COVID-19 officer to ensure compliance with any relevant guidelines. Furthermore, there will be a limit on the number of permits issued for July to 50% of those in the corresponding month of 2019, in order that there are sufficient volunteer Official and Marshal resources available to support the restart in a safe and responsible manner. No national or British championship events will take place in July to reduce potential national and international travel (excludes FIA championships).

To find out more about Motorsport UK - visit motorsportuk.org/restart