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22 Feb 2003, 14:51 (Ref:514142) | #1 | ||
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Engine Rumor!
Seventhgear is reporting that there are new and old engine manufacturers interested in CART in 2005. John Lopes, CART's VP of Operations, made reference today in a press conference that as of right now there are up to 5 different manufacturers who are showing interest in the 2005 rules modifications packages. No companies were named.
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22 Feb 2003, 16:11 (Ref:514178) | #2 | ||
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"showing interest"...
Motorsport/high performance departments are almost always interested. It's the beancounters that squash their plans. A reason why CART needs an engine package which offers better value, not V-10 racing-only engines which don't even share parts with their F1 cousins. It's a huge waste of resources when you can easily put together a reliable 800hp turbocharged engine using a stock block, some custom heads, cams and intake, and a the rest of the internals could come right out of the race parts catalogs (pistons, crankshafts, oil pumps, etc). |
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22 Feb 2003, 16:13 (Ref:514179) | #3 | ||
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So who do we think these companies are?
VAG? Porsche? GM? Renault/Nissan? |
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22 Feb 2003, 18:28 (Ref:514240) | #4 | ||
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John Lopes, CART's VP of Operations mentioned that one of the engine manufacturers would be from CART's feeder series..... Toyota or Dodge? Iv'e also heard Chris Pook mention Porsche and Audi.
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22 Feb 2003, 19:05 (Ref:514259) | #5 | ||
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Toyota? I doubt it. Dodge would make sense as they have stepped up their NASCAR involvement, if CART still has a significant American base by then that would be a great development.
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22 Feb 2003, 20:43 (Ref:514327) | #6 | |||
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Quote:
It'll be V-10s. Resistance is futile, Lee... |
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22 Feb 2003, 20:52 (Ref:514334) | #7 | ||
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"Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light." -Dylan Thomas Besides, I've got Ford on my side. If CART's learned anything, it should be that Ford is their greatest ally. Remember, this time last year, we were resigned to 3.5L V8s. Last edited by Lee Janotta; 22 Feb 2003 at 20:57. |
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22 Feb 2003, 21:17 (Ref:514351) | #8 | ||
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And they also make V-10s, don't they?
Cosworth, Mugen(Acura), Maserati(Ferrari), Chrysler(Mercedes-Illmor), Lexus(Toyota-Meccachrome), BMW, even MG/Judd just to name a few. Outside of the valvetrain and other things, the basic designs will be similar to F1, with changes to suit Champ Car's needs. And the 2-year window gives manufacturers ample time to have a ready stock of engines for each teams contractural agreements. Not to mention the newer rules for extended life mills for '05-and beyond for F1 allows them to do all of the hard development, while CART stands to reap the rewards. It'll be V-10s. You know it, and I know it... |
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22 Feb 2003, 21:27 (Ref:514359) | #9 | ||
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Huge engine in a truck (and F1 V-10), F1, F1, F1 and Viper, F1, F1, sportscars (F1-derived).
They won't share any parts in common with the F1 engines, as Pook's said. I think they had a better shot at selling us on the IRL V8s! At least more than 2 companies have V-8 engines on the street! Just repeating it ad nauseum doesn't make it true. Doesn't make the War on Drugs a success, doesn't make Schumacher the greatest driver ever, and it doesn't make V-10s inevitable. |
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"Put a ****ing wheel on there! Let me go out again!" -Gilles Villeneuve, Zandvoort, 1979 |
22 Feb 2003, 21:30 (Ref:514363) | #10 | ||
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they might not share any parts, but I'd imagine a lot of the R&D work (which makes up the majority of the budget) that's been done for the F1 engines would apply to a similar engine for Cart. Just a thought anyway...
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22 Feb 2003, 22:03 (Ref:514384) | #11 | ||
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...and that is what's called cost/benefit analysis, Jay. Highest amount of return for the lowest amount of principle. Why start up a brand new development program, with all of the inherit costs, when you can take a proven end and modify it for newer purposes.
Self explanitory, really. |
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Here's to the new age of Sports car/Prototypes... |
22 Feb 2003, 22:20 (Ref:514398) | #12 | ||
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I still better hear the sound of turbos though...
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22 Feb 2003, 22:27 (Ref:514402) | #13 | ||
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Exactly veeten. Why cast new blocks, forge new rods, crankshafts and pistons, go through all that mess when you can just pull parts from your parts bin and GT/touring car programs?
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23 Feb 2003, 02:18 (Ref:514533) | #14 | ||
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I understand what Lee and Veeten are saying...why change something that already works (V8 Turbos), but most race fans like competition between engine manufacturers and those engine companies may not want to come back to or join CART unless they (CART) changes their specs to V10 NA. On one hand I would rather have V10 NA engines if it brought in new manufacturers or old ones, on the other hand a V8 Turbo might be the perfect fit for a CART car. Then again, if different engine manufacturers had a year to a year and a half to build a V10 NA engine(s) and test them in a CART car, they could be just as good. Who the hell no's?
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Give them good ol' boys the chrome horn PT! |
23 Feb 2003, 15:52 (Ref:514842) | #15 | ||
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Heck, I just want any engines powering my favourite drivers in my favourite championship...
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23 Feb 2003, 15:53 (Ref:514843) | #16 | ||
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Notice all the Mercedes ads lining the walls at St. Petes?
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Don't make a fuss, just get on the bus! |
23 Feb 2003, 16:41 (Ref:514887) | #17 | |||
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Chr!st, how many times do I have to post this?!?
Quote:
Last edited by Snrub; 23 Feb 2003 at 16:47. |
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No Rotor, No Motor. |
24 Feb 2003, 21:06 (Ref:516478) | #18 | |||
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Quote:
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24 Feb 2003, 21:33 (Ref:516500) | #19 | ||
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V-6s, Norman. 3.5L ones beefed up but using stock blocks. With turbos. Easily good for 700hp and a fat torque curve.
If we can't keep the V-8s, we might as well get something close and cheaper. |
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24 Feb 2003, 22:27 (Ref:516589) | #20 | ||
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Stock block 3.5L V6's would not hold up to 700HP for CART races. IRL's getting about all thier good for. Real racing requires real racing engines.
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24 Feb 2003, 23:43 (Ref:516685) | #21 | ||
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They got very close with an _old_ pushrod design, with the Buick/Menards V6. Renault, Peugeot and Porsche have all done it with sports and GT cars. Ask Porsche engineers, they'll tell you without blinking they can build a 700hp gasoline-powered version of the 3.4L flat six, and get it to go 1500 miles without losing more than a couple ponies.
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24 Feb 2003, 23:43 (Ref:516686) | #22 | ||
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Naturally aspirated you're right. That's why we like forced induction. You can get a LOT more. Recall in the 80s there were turbocharged 1.5L F1 Engines putting out 1300hp from production blocks. Correct me if I'm wrong, but IRL isn't based on a production block. I don't think they nessisarly need to be stock blocks, but having the basic dimensions would allow manufacturers to claim "this is what you have in your street car." There's no reason a 3.5L V6 can't similar power to a 2.65L V8.
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No Rotor, No Motor. |
25 Feb 2003, 00:01 (Ref:516703) | #23 | |||
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Quote:
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25 Feb 2003, 01:25 (Ref:516758) | #24 | |||
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Quote:
By the way, Barber Dodge runs a N/A 3.5L DOHC V6 engine in their series. Rated at 265hp, it pulls the 1400lb. car to a max of 155mph. The Buick/Menard V6 had a nasty propensity to "****-out" just before the 3/4 mark of the only race it entered, the Indy 500. Then there's the aborted Porsche 2.65L turbo "Indy" engine, wonder why that one never made the grid at the brickyard?... even though it did make LeMans in '81, detuned to 600+hp. |
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25 Feb 2003, 02:11 (Ref:516773) | #25 | ||
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I have no idea why the Buick 3.8L weren't able to sustain races, but other people on here have told me the same thing you said.
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No Rotor, No Motor. |
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