The Official "Porsche is NOT owned by Volkswagen" Thread!

[Muzza]

Dear "Volks",

I was wrong: as confirmed by my friends working for Volkswagen, the Porsche company is not part of the Volkswagen AG group.

Although both companies have common roots (Ferdinand Porsche designed the "Käfer" - the "Beetle" - as commissioned by the German government in 1934), have some special joint ventures set together (as the new VW/Audi/Porsche sport utilities) and have some common major shareholders (as Lee Janotta said), Volkswagen does not own Porsche.

The Volkswagen AG group is composed by nine brands: VW (cars), VW Commercial Vehicles (Nutzfahrzeuge), Audi, Seat, Skoda, Bentley, Bugatti, Lamborghini and Rolls-Royce.

The single biggest VW shareholder is the government of Lower Saxony Land, with about 20% of the shares.

The Porsche family is the biggest single shareholder of Porsche, but I was not able to figure out their share yet (also, it is very likely that their share is divided through several family members).

So, RickP:Clio51, M Coupe and cybersdorf were right - Porsche is an independently-owned company. My statements were off the mark.

(well, this gives me more hope of seeing a Porsche/Bentley or Porsche/Audi/Bentley fight in Le Mans in 2004!)

Cheers,

Muzza

[Dr. Austin]

Still, as they are marketing partners, it is smart for them NOT to race each other. I am utterly convinced that the R8 is a joint Audi/Porsche project. The thing looks, sounds, goes, and smells like a Porsche. The team is run by porsche stalwart Reinhold Joest, a loyal Porsche customer since 1972 at least, and before that a Porsche factory driver.

Just a gut feeling after watching the cars run and being three feet away from the car and crew for about an hour, watching what was going on. It sure looked like a Porsche operation.



Joest's most famous ride........

[Muzza]

Dear Doc,

I expected you to post a picture of one of those "Porsche+Audi"-liveried 917/30!

I can only agree with you - the Audi R8 smells Porsche... Besides of what you said:

- Audi had no tradition of designing/building sportscars (ok, they did run in Trans-Am and other things, but this was a looong while ago, and a completely different stuff). Then they show this very steep learning curve and now are completely unbeatable... (don't blame on the poor competition, the Audis are very fast outright) Ops, this is strange.

- also, there is some "similarities" between the first Audi Rs and the last Porsche GT1s... Yes, the Audi team did quite some work, but one can guess that there is some Porsche blood there.

- Norbert Singer (the genius behind the 935, the 936, the 956 and the 962) was always very ironic about having his team being "shifted" to design the Cayenne Porsche SUV. This may sound a conspiracy theory, but I could imagine that actually Mr. Singer was also working on "something else" most of his time... Maybe he was giving a hand to the folks in Ingolstadt!

Cheers,

Muzza

[Aysedasi]

That 917 still brings home the bacon for me, Doc!

[AllonFS]

Originally posted by Aysedasi
That 917 still brings home the bacon for me, Doc!

I heard it went like stink as well!

Probably a really ignorant question, but what happened to the Pink Pig. Is it still around and if so, has it suffered the fate of all surviving 917s and been Gulfed?

[Muzza]

Hello, Allon FS,

The "Pink Pig" Porsche 917/20 is in permanent display in the Porsche Museum in Stuttgart (a rather small but extremely interesting collection, I should say! By the way, much better than the rather floppy BMW museum in Munich).

As you may know, only one 917/20 chassis was ever manufactured, so that's a real unique car.

Does anybody know when was the last exhibition runs of the 917/20? I have no idea...

Cheers,

Muzza

[AllonFS]

Thanks for the response.

The Stuttgart collection sounds interesting, although I'm not sure why it is small. There are so many interesting race Porsches; sportscar, F1, rally etc. If they had a decent collection it would be really something.

Anyway good to hear the Porker to end all Porkers is still alive and well.

[Muzza]

Hello, AllonFS,

The Porsche museum is quite good - I just found that collection could be larger (maybe a I am too much of a Porsche fan!). The BMW museum in Munich is disappointing, though.

On the other hand, the Mercedes-Benz museum (also in Stuttgart) is excellent. If you have a chance to go to Germany, don't miss it. There is a beautiful Sauber C group in exhibition there. They also promote a meeting with the F-1 and DTM drivers, once a year, which is fantastic (unfortunately I did not have the opportunity to attend, so I just saw the videos...).

And, of course, YOU MUST GO TO NURBURGRING AND DRIVE IN THE NORDSCHLEIFE! (and also visit the museum, just beside the track).

Cheers,

Muzza

[M Coupe]

Muzza,

I found the Nuerburgring museum disappointing, the Nordschleife isn't though, been round there a few times. Has anyone visited the new VW-Audi museum, it's supposed to be very good?

Mark

P.S. VW only own Rolls Royce until Jan 1st 2003 when BMW take over the name.

[Muzza]

Hello, M Coupe,

First of all, gentleman, you were right about the Porsche company ownership, see above...

It will be interesting to see how Rolls and Bentley (that will continue to be owned by VW) product ranges will evolve once BMW takes over the first.

I rather enjoyed the Nurburgring museum - although I may have been biased by the fact that they let me fool around with the ex-Manfred Wilkenhock Liqui Moly-liveried 956. And also because I tend to be fanatic about anything related to the Nurburgring...

I will start a "Nurburgring kiss and tell" thread in the Historic Racing forum about our experiences in the Nordschleife.

Cheers,

Muzza

[AllonFS]

Originally posted by Muzza
And, of course, YOU MUST GO TO NURBURGRING AND DRIVE IN THE NORDSCHLEIFE! (and also visit the museum, just beside the track).

One day, one day. At the moment Grand Prix Legends is giving me a great Nordschleife hit. Literally, I keep ploughing straight of the track! Utter respect to all those who raced their, god-like admiration for those who mastered it.