BMW E28's in motorsport?

[BILTEL]

I'm toying with parking up the Starion and entering my E28 535i in to Pre93's and the "Alternative 6 hour". It may not be the most competitive car, but it's normally aspirated, 1986 and sat doing nothing. I've trawled through google and found very little. There seems to have been a few 528's in some Spa races. So come on, what do you know??

[Frank de Jong]

The car was the Group A machine to have in 1982, but it was already outdated when BMW started racing the 635 CSi from 1983 on.

[Al Weyman]

Well there you go Tel, the 635 can't race in CTCRC Group 1 if its a post 83 car so maybe at least in our Group 1 it could be good. Also I doubt the 635 would meet the CTCRC criteria of 5000 produced cars in any one year.

[chunterer]

The E28 shape first appeared in Tricentrol Group 1 in 1977 IIRC?

The 530 was more powerful that the Capris apparently, but was significantly heavier so wasn't as competitive overall.

TWR and Toleman ran cars (both might actually have been prepared by TWR?) in 1978 for the likes of Win Percy, Andy Rouse, Dieter Quester, Rad Dougall and Walkinshaw himself.

As Frank says the 528i was the weapon of choice for most in the first year of the ETC run to Group A regs in 1982, but was a kind of stop gap whilst the 635 was being homologated.

Interestingly a 635 was also rumoured to have been coming to Group 1 in Britain in 1980, another TWR project, but this failed to come off in the end.

[KA]

Can't add much to what's been said about the E28 racing interantionally in Group A, but I'm sure I remember 535is being used pretty effectively at club level in the various BMW series in the UK in the 90's?

[Peter Mallett]

Dunno if this helps.

http://www.mallettracing.co.uk/IMAGES/1978-02.JPG

[Jesper OH]

I think it's Frank de Jong who provided me with the story that the 528i E28 Group A car of 1982 was developed by Ruedi Eggenberger curtesy of BMW Motorsport. 20 kits were sold to various teams around Europe explaining why the car was relatively prolific in the first year of ETCC Group A racing.
The road going 5-series had undergone a major update during 1981, the rear suspension being of major importance, to the extent that the former E12 designation was replaced by E28.
I think the 6-series was considered but not enough cars were produced in time for 1982 and that the coupé was a bit of overkill anyway.

The M5 E28 was used in the French Supertourisme series, ORECA being the team I think, but the campain ended after the 1986 season.

The 530i E12 also seemed to be a prolific car in France and Belgium in the late 1970s.

South Africa had the 5-series racing in one of their saloon car series - I believe the 5-series being assembled in SA at one point.

As late as 1987 a 528i was raced in the opening WTCC race at Monza.

A bit messy in cronology, but that's the way I remembered the various cars and series.

Jesper

[BILTEL]

Blimey!! Well done.

[Jesper OH]

Found this link listing champions and race winners of the French series:
http://www.motorsportsresults.com/to...ing.france.pdf

Jesper

[BILTEL]

Originally Posted by Jesper OH

Found this link listing champions and race winners of the French series:
http://www.motorsportsresults.com/to...ing.france.pdf

Jesper

Very interesting.

[Al Weyman]

So Terry is it worth/feasable to get the engine size down and race it as a Pre-83 model. I cant help feel its more where it belongs with no M3's to go up against?

[SAMD]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

So Terry is it worth/feasable to get the engine size down and race it as a Pre-83 model. I cant help feel its more where it belongs with no M3's to go up against?

No No No, its a 3.5 litre and should be kept as such. There are plenty of 2.8 engines about but why on earth would anyone downgrade? Its not as if you would drop a class. I presume the M3s are out of the picture because of the 5000 units in any one year thing?

[Al Weyman]

To get it in to the CTCRC Pre 83 Group 1 races as it would be outclassed in the pre 93's as will be up against M3's. It was only a suggestion but ran as a 12 valve 3.5 I think personally it will struggle.

[BILTEL]

Nice idea Al. But no it'll be as is. Shame though as I did fancy mixing it with the older stuff. I don't understand the bruising on the other forum. How does everybody think it'll be so uncompetitive especially against the Rover V8. Brians 635 can catch my Starion on the straights and normally beats the Rover. I will never win in the Starion whilst the money boys have got all types of M3, the cossies, and more Tomcats.

[SAMD]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

To get it in to the CTCRC Pre 83 Group 1 races as it would be outclassed in the pre 93's as will be up against M3's.

Ah ha. I didn't know. I was just thinking of the 6 hr race.

Might be better in 2.8 form then.
The E12 was available in 3.5 form pre 83 but not E28

[Al Weyman]

I didnt think it really got a bruising as I said they were referring to the 535i not the M which I think a few posters here have and have got their lines crossed. I disagree about your Starion not being able to challenge for overall honours as Mark's does! Is Brian's the same engine as yours or a 24v unit and will it run at the same weight as I would have thought as a coupe it may be able to run lighter?

[Al Weyman]

Accordingto Wiki the 635 comes in at 1430 kgs conciderably lighter and probably lower and stiffer than the 535i it is after all a coupe vs a 4 door saloon!

[BILTEL]

Not sure Al.

The confusion is that there is an M535i (12valve) and an M5 (24valve). The same to look at but a very different car, mine is a standard looking 535i with the mtech suspension, wheels and arches all from the factory.

I've read today that the 535i was 1370kgs. At 218bhp standard that's 28 up on standard Rover vitesse and 40 up on a standard Starion. If Brians was a 24 valve that would be 286bhp standard and would have left me for dead.

I know it's not the best racer and ideally I would have a 635. My favourite touring car bar none. Jody Halse's perfect 635 was just porn at Silverstone.

I have looked at alternatives like a 1983 XR4i. A capri would be better but Fords are so over priced now and not worth the money. Ive had a 3.0s, 2.8i, RS2000 and a mexico all good group 1's now, in fact my RS was one of the rare group 1 cars.

You'd think after 8 Starions I'd be hooked, but then I have had 10 BMWs oh and 4 Lancer Turbos. Now thats a car that would stamp all over the Fords in Group 1.

[Al Weyman]

The lancer turbo wouldnt be allowed in Terry as not enough produced if it had been then that and the Lotus Sunbeam also not allowed for same reason would have long ago been the car to have. Its hard to find a definitive kurb weight on cars as Ialso read it ws 1600kgs somewhere sowho knows. An XR4i would be a complete waste of time IMHO we had one out in ModProds owned and driven by Andrew McKenzie and eventhough we allowed him the de-siamesed exhaust port conversion which would not be allowed in 93's but it wasnt a winner and was a very well prepared car with lots of time and money thrwn at it.

The end of the day you havethe car and its sitting around doing nothing so stick a cage in the thing and lets see it out as I am sure with the IRS it will handle better than the rover or my Chevy and hook up the power better which is the problem I have.

[flatinfourth]

Hi, In the process of researching BMW E28 race history, this thread came up on google, so i was wondering if i could wake it up!
I have owned a 12 valve E28 535iSE for nearly a decade, and of course in that time the historic scene has developed a bit for eighties cars. The car was ordered from the factory with a dogleg and large case LSD etc, is caged and so on. I haven't driven it since a trip to Snetterton in 2004, but a good friend did the Pomeroy Trophy in it for a little outing in 2009.

My original plan when the car was bought was to run it with a 3.8 24 valve, but the car has largely been sidelined due to other commitments. Now of course time has gone by, and more of a historic perspective is coming through, so the choice i suppose is more limited to either the 12 valve, or 24 valve 3.5 engine options from the period, which i assume would have limited openings available due to tiny production numbers, especially in right hand drive. How has this situation developed, who now welcomes a 3.5 12 valve E28?

[BILTEL]

Don't bother, sell it off really really cheap for spares. I'll take it off your hands as it isnt worth more than £100. So I'll do you a favour and give you £200.

Although I may be a bit biased as my E28 535i likes being unique.

Good luck. I did send you a message on the 5 forum after I'd seen the pics of yours in The Pom.

There was a fella called Warren Halls racing an E28 528i in the Trackday Trophy last year.

Mine is still resting in my garage after an engine failure in 2011.

[Alex E]

There used to be a blue & orange E28 M535i in the Spa 24 Hours in the early `90`s. I think I saw it there in `91 92 & 93. It was from England I think. Not very fast but reliable.
Wonder where it is now.
alex

[flatinfourth]

Originally Posted by BILTEL

Don't bother, sell it off really really cheap for spares. I'll take it off your hands as it isnt worth more than £100. So I'll do you a favour and give you £200.

Although I may be a bit biased as my E28 535i likes being unique.

Good luck. I did send you a message on the 5 forum after I'd seen the pics of yours in The Pom.

There was a fella called Warren Halls racing an E28 528i in the Trackday Trophy last year.

Mine is still resting in my garage after an engine failure in 2011.

Hi, i hope you can find another engine and get busy! There is no reason why an E28 should be slow, BMW had to keep the E28 in the shadows as it caused some embarrassment to their coupe flagship both on road and track.
After driving my car in the Pom Matt decided that an E28 was the way to go racing in Malaysia. I failed to persuade him to take my car out, so instead i sent a pallet of bits out to help him build a car he bought out there. In fact that car has been developed into a very reliable race and now championship winning machine. It is now up for sale for a price it couldn't be built for.

What i'm trying to find out really is whether the situation has softened from ten years ago, where the idea of racing even a 12 valve 3.5 was unwelcome, despite the cars running in europe.

[flatinfourth]

Matt's fine E28!

[brown dog]

A couple of pics I took at Spa last year, this was parked in the pits: