IRL win in the end?

Crash Test · 22 May 2000, 05:09 (Ref:6073)

I really hate all this "IRL sucks/Cart rules" stuff...so i don't know why i am starting this topic.

Now i enjoy them both for what they are, racing series. Administrators and the names of the drivers doesn't worry me.

OK enough blahing...

Now that Chip Ganasi and Walker have (sort of in a funny way) defected to the other side, and other teams have signalled their intentions, will it start a move towards the IRL? Heck, love it or hate it, the IRL have the event, the Indy 500. No event in Cart goes anywhere near it, and you can't deny that. What do you think the future holds?

floid2000 · 22 May 2000, 05:27 (Ref:6074)

Personally ,I wish they could all race together as one.Realistically I think there will be two sanctioning bodies for a few years.

Nuvolari · 22 May 2000, 07:10 (Ref:6075)

" . . . the IRL have the event, the Indy 500. No event in Cart goes anywhere near it, and you can't deny that."

That may be true in the wider public mind, only because of the cache that goes with the name "Indy 500." I think real racing fans know the difference and have not been following it nearly as avidly as they did before the split.

Maybe it's just me, but I can't get excited about IRL. I'll be pulling for the Ganassi boys, but I won't watch.

I do believe there will be some sort of rapprochement within the next few years. It will be an economic necessity for survival.

marcus · 22 May 2000, 09:16 (Ref:6076)

Im with Crash on this one.

while im not an american and apparently carnt claim "they have stolen a tradition" i can relate to how you all feel (crash will know what I mean about bathurst)

but i dont really care for all that ...racing is racing and i have been privileged to watch the IRL since 1997 and have enjoyed it immensly.
I still love Champcars and would agree that they are the top series but the IRL offers something different for people to watch and I would be glad to have any new series start up because it means more racing for me to see.
I dont know where young craig has gone but I have discussed this with him in the past and it seems that some have been terribly hurt by what the IRL have done as i was when Bathurst was split up ...but i did still watch the super touring race because it was racing and i was happy to be watching racing.

so if they merge or not it doesnt bother me either way we are going to get one totally brilliant class or two classes that are excellent.
I say bring on Indy and lets see what the Ganassi boys can do

Jay · 22 May 2000, 17:14 (Ref:6077)

Bah, throw away the Indy 500. It is a stupid race, and I have said why 100 times before.

Keep Cart the way it is.

fatbloke · 22 May 2000, 17:19 (Ref:6078)

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>
Bah, throw away the Indy 500. It is a stupid race, and I have said why 100 times before.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I simply cannot believe that they refuse to listen to King Jay. Jeez! Does it really matter what you think ? (BTW, do you like /anything/ which is American anyway ?)

It's the millions of people who have drifted into watching Nastycar since this great race was ripped away from the Indycar calendar (and the series given that stupid bloody CART name)

mapguy · 22 May 2000, 17:29 (Ref:6079)

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Crash Test:
Now that Chip Ganasi and Walker have (sort of in a funny way) defected to the other side, <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

TCGR is cherry picking Indy. They are not 'defecting'. TCGR at indy only helps Indy, not the irl.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Crash Test:
and other teams have signalled their intentions, will it start a move towards the IRL? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Name one. There has been nothing mentioned from any other team.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Crash Test:
Heck, love it or hate it, the IRL have the event, the Indy 500. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is the same event that has dropped from an 8+ in the ratings to a 5 since CART was kicked out. This is the same event that had near sell-outs for pole day before CART was kicked out. Did you see the crowd on Saturday? Neither did I.

How can this help the irl? What happens if Obi-Juan and Jeemy finish 1-2? There will be a few teams that won't be showing up for the next race.

Neil C · 22 May 2000, 19:06 (Ref:6080)

Jay,
After years of attending all types of races, including F1, I was fortunate to get tickets on the outside of turn 4 at the Indy 500.

Even with all my exposure to racing, including driving a Formula Ford, nothing prepared me for the sights and sounds of the field of 33 cars pulling out of turn 3, into the short chute, and into turn 4. And this was only the final pace lap!

By the time the cars came around on the first race lap, I realized I had barely taken a breath. Nothing has ever come close to that spectacle.

But yeah, if you say so, it's a stupid race, get rid of it.

Dave S · 22 May 2000, 20:41 (Ref:6081)

I have to completely agree with Mapguy. I saw a LOT of empty seats both days. Also, here in the Northwest USA the ABC affiliate dropped the afternoon coverage in favor of infomercials! Very sad. The last I saw on Sat. the Ganassi boys were solidly in & Al 'Tubby" Unser Jr. had qualified ahead of only the 19 yr old rookie. (Was he paranoid or what?)

Crash Test · 22 May 2000, 22:26 (Ref:6082)

"TCGR is cherry picking Indy. They are not 'defecting'. TCGR at indy only helps Indy, not the irl."
-if in the future they want to field a team in the IRL, wouldn't that help the irl? Another thing, it seems like a fair few people are going to watch Indy because of the simple fact that TCGR are there. What if these people decide to watch the next race because they discover that there is some good racing going on there.

"Name one. There has been nothing mentioned from any other team."
-Remember back to the silly season when most of cart were going to field a car? This is just a whacko theory, but don't you think that TCGR are there primarily to please their sponsors? Now what if they clean up and get the massive media attention that would go with it? Do you think the other Cart teams are going to stand thereand let them hog all of the limelight?

"This is the same event that has dropped from an 8+ in the ratings to a 5 since CART was kicked out. This is the same event that had near sell-outs for pole day before CART was kicked out. Did you see the crowd on Saturday? Neither did I."
-What were the rating for Long Beach? I heard that they were **** house. It still gets a much bigger crowd than any Cart race ever will....

"How can this help the irl? What happens if Obi-Juan and Jeemy finish 1-2? There will be a few teams that won't be showing up for the next race."
-Hmmmm, okee dokee....

Heeltoe6 · 23 May 2000, 00:58 (Ref:6083)

The irl might have a place in racing, but, imho, it does not deserve to run what was once the most prestigous races in the wrold. imho, TG basically kicked CART out so he could have the power, and there will never be a re-union unless CART caves into his egocentricity. I wish this foolish split would be over and done with, but there's only one man who can stop it, and he didn't bother to attend THE key meeting last year, decding to just blow everyone (including Bill France, who wasn't too happy) off. As for the move towards the irl, CART isn't going to be stupid enough to leave the weekend open next year (how can they justify it, with possibly 3 new races next year, if they ever make up their mids about Europe, when only 1 team goes, as Walker irl teams is separate).

Jay · 23 May 2000, 03:12 (Ref:6084)

I like Cart, Jimmy Vasser, Memo Gidley, Mario Andretti (NOT his cry baby son), Coke, McDonalds (although there are better burger places).

OK guys, all I meant was that Cart doesn't need the Indy 500. (I would also argue F1 could do without Monaco)

I personally, have tuned into it for the past few years, and I usually fall asleep. The racing is not close, I haven't heard of 95% of the drivers, the cars look and sound horrible, and this year, many of the drivers lost to "Little Al" earlier this year.

I am a little more interested in it this year because of Juan and Jimmy, however their performance in quali for the first time shows just how far ahead CART is of IRL, and then just how far ahead F1 is of CART.

And why is the quali and practice spread out over 2 weeks? By the time the race comes I will have forgotten who was on pole! (some guy that I have never heard of) That makes it impossible for one to get excited over the race. And what do you do if you want to go to it? Spend 2 weeks Indianapolis?

I will tune into Indianapolis this year, as always, but unless there is a major pile up or some exciting racing after the first 2 laps I will likely fall asleep (much like the drivers on those never ending straights).

Neil C · 23 May 2000, 03:54 (Ref:6085)

I agree Jay that Indy since the IRL has been a sleeper.

Actually, spreading the event over the month of May has great advantages. The last time I went, I went on the final weekend of qualifying. You could get into the track for $15, and sit anywhere you wanted. Plus you have easier access to the paddock, teams and drivers.

Then we went home and came back on raceday.

Crash Test · 23 May 2000, 05:47 (Ref:6086)

"I haven't heard of 95% of the drivers"
-You wouldn't know any of the Cart drivers if you didn't follow the series....

"many of the drivers lost to "Little Al" earlier this year."
-Hmmmm.....well he did win a high attrition race, but Airton Dare should have won it...

"I am a little more interested in it this year because of Juan and Jimmy, however their performance in quali for the first time shows just how far ahead CART is of IRL..."
-Another Hmmmmm...TCGR are the best in Cart, they would have the most money and probably the best resources, as well as 2 competent drivers...hmmmm, would be nice if there were a few more yard sticks out there..

"And why is the quali and practice spread out over 2 weeks? By the time the race comes I will have forgotten who was on pole! (some guy that I have never heard of) That makes it impossible for one to get excited over the race. And what do you do if you want to go to it? Spend 2 weeks Indianapolis? "
-Hmmmm, aint that tradition though? As much as you want to deny it, it is the WORLDS biggest sporting event, with 400,000 people attending (and guys dont **** on how it is smaller since Cart left. It is, but it is still much bigger than everything else...). It has a much bigger purse than any other event, it has more history than any other event (remember the first 500 was held in 1911, and that's a fair lot older than every other event...)....

floid2000 · 23 May 2000, 07:17 (Ref:6087)

OH NO ! Not Monaco now ?

mapguy · 23 May 2000, 12:20 (Ref:6088)

>>"if in the future they want to field a team in the IRL, wouldn't that help the irl? "<<

If if if. In the words of the immortal Keke Rosberg "If my aunt had b@lls she'd be my uncle". What you are saying is pure speculation and IMO utter fallacy.

>>"Another thing, it seems like a fair few people are going to watch Indy because of the simple fact that TCGR are there. "<<

If this is true then why the empty grandstands on pole day?

>>"Remember back to the silly season when most of cart were going to field a car? This is just a whacko theory, but don't you think that TCGR are there primarily to please their sponsors? "<<

You're right. It is a wacko theory. The main reason that TCGR is there is not to please their sponsors (Bud is footing the bill and they don't sponsor TCGR in CART) but to please Chip's ego.

>>"-Hmmmm, okee dokee....""<

What you fail to see is that most of these teams need the Indy payday to finish the season. Do you think that Didero is going to be at the next race? Doubt it. Did you see the artice on SpeedNet about the differences between TCGR's facilities and the likes of Pelfry? That is very telling.

Crash Test · 23 May 2000, 12:49 (Ref:6089)

"If this is true then why the empty grandstands on pole day?"
-I'm only going by what people are saying in this forum, if you want to sit there and watch the grass grow on Sunday afternoon, good for you. But most of the people here will be watching the race, and have decided that they are going to watch the race because of TCGRs presence.

"Do you think that Didero is going to be at the next race? Doubt it. Did you see the artice on SpeedNet about the differences between TCGR's facilities and the likes of Pelfry? That is very telling."
- There are the haves and the have nots you know. Som folk go to Indy to live out dreams and sacrific so much to get there to have their crack at glory...

mapguy · 23 May 2000, 15:14 (Ref:6090)

>>"-I'm only going by what people are saying in this forum, if you want to sit there and watch the grass grow on Sunday afternoon, good for you. But most of the people here will be watching the race, and have decided that they are going to watch the race because of TCGRs presence."<<

The Indy race will always sell out. Most of the people go there because it is Indy. They are mainly Place Fans, not Race Fans. To prove this all you have to do is see the attendance of the other Irl races.

As for pole day attendance, see this link:
http://www.deepthrottle.com/Myths/pole_day_att.shtml

>>"- There are the haves and the have nots you know. Som folk go to Indy to live out dreams and sacrific so much to get there to have their crack at glory..."<<

Yes, but at the expense of CART teams? This is supposed to be a major league race. If the 'little guy' can't make it then tough noogies. The Indy 500 is supposed to be the "Greatest Spectical In Racing" sadly it is not anymore.

[This message has been edited by mapguy (edited 23 May 2000).]

KC · 23 May 2000, 15:40 (Ref:6091)

Very true. The only thing keeping anyone from this forum from qualifying at Indy is funding and available skill. Is it Juam Montoya's fault that he has the considerable backing of TCGR? Everyone gets the same chance, some are able to do more with what they have and some are able to get more through sponsorship.

slicktoast · 23 May 2000, 18:05 (Ref:6092)

One major engine supplier, a bubble day that was basically like a bubble(a small encapsulated pocket of air). The field reached 33 only within the last hour or so of bubble day. Yes the IRL will win out.

Why do they bother to spread qualifying out soooooo long? That was a farce. I was on the edge of my carpet for about 15 minutes.
The race might be good, but lately all the hype of the Indy 500 is just like that bubble!