Volunteering and Car Insurance

[TAJ_9]

Hi All,

This might seem like an odd post and this might not be best place for it as it is a more general question about volunteering in motorsport. Also apologies for the very long first post.
I have been thinking of motorsport related volunteering in someway (most likely marshalling but maybe scrutineering) for a while now.

Additionally over the last few weeks I have been in the process of renewing my car insurance. Whilst on the phone to the insurance company to change some details I decided to ask them what their policy was on using my vehicle for volunteering (e.g. were there any additional T&C's or anything I needed to tell them about). I was told that I did not need to update them with anything and my current level of cover would be fine as I have business cover already (as required for my main job). Anyway after finishing the call I did an online search and came across the ABI volunteer drivers page (https://www.abi.org.uk/products-and-...nteer-drivers/). Here there is a link to a document that lists many of the major insurance companies and what details are needed/level of cover for volunteers. Looking at this my insurance company is listed as not needing to be informed and SD&P cover would be acceptable (so i should be fine).
Slightly confused I have rang them back twice now and spoken to 2 people since and been told by one that I would have to tell them that my second occupation was a volunteer. The second time I was told the same however when I pointed out that someone may only volunteer occasionaly (e.g. once a year) I was told that I did not need to tell them as "it wasn't like I was working part time in the evenings". However it would be good to tell them so their records were "accurate and up to date".

So in summary I have been told three different things by three different people (all from the same comapny) all of which contradicts the ABI website.

Before I go any further I would like to know if anyone here has had similar issues? Particuarly if you have had to make a claim? I don't want to start volunteering then my insurance company refuse to pay out if needed because I haven't told them about something I may only do occasionaly.
I am tempted to try to get their position in writing however I fear this would be like banging my head against a wall.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[Woolley]

My understanding is:

Marshalling is a hobby. Whilst you are volunteering for it, you are not a 'volunteer' in the usual definition.

As you are using your vehicle to attend your hobby then there are no insurance issues. Nor are you using your vehicle in the activity of your hobby. It is not used in any way as part of your activities.

It's no different to driving to a theatre rehearsal, sewing group or anything else that people do where they drive to get there. In fact it's not really any different from attending as a spectator.

[Slipstick]

Pretty much what I was told too. The complications only arise if you are a volunteer driver using your own vehicle e.g. driving people to and from hospital/doctor appointments or similar (and that's what the ABI page is about).

Driving to somewhere where you are volunteering for an unpaid non-driving activity is covered by SD&P. Despite the weather we end up standing out in marshalling counts as pleasure .

Steve

[gary396]

I don't agree I'm afraid. If you don't tell them it can void your policy. I looked into this when I was marshalling (and currently timekeeping where it's definitely required to be declared) as I had previously had dealings with people whose vehicle insurance had been voided.

Yes, it's very much up to the individual insurance company but they can class such voluntary work as a secondary occupation especially given that it's invariably at different locations not a single site.

Added to this can be the issue of driving into non-public areas within the circuit. It's further complicated if (on those rare occasions) you receive a gift (especially if monetary) as that can be classed as expenses which further brings into question the voluntary aspect for some - and I stress 'some' - insurance companies.

My advice is always to declare it - more often than not it won't be a problem. If doing it by phone then make a written note of the specific time & date AND name of the person who dealt with your call. Keep that note with your insurance documents. Better still where the option is available do it via live chat online and print it out.

It's rarely a problem but just declare it and ask the question before you take the risk. Just my opinion of course.

[Slipstick]

Unfortunately the OP's experience was that trying to ask the insurance company got several contradictory and not very useful answers. My opinion is based on having asked at least 4 different companies but you're right, the next one might come up with yet another different answer. I bet the answer will also depend on exactly how you ask the question.

E.g. I recently helped out on a charity stall at a couple of events, I even got an ice-cream as "pay" at one. It never even occurred to me that I should tell the insurance company about doing that "voluntary work".

I've only had one minor no-fault accident on the way home from marshalling but I certainly wasn't even asked where I'd come from or what I'd been doing there.

But like all insurance, it's a potential rat's nest.

Steve

[Beej1]

I marshal and work in car insurance.
Tell your broker/insurer that you do it, even if they decide they don't care, you've covered your own back.

The one condition we will call experience is the exclusion of cover in any sanctioned paddock or pits area. Ie. if you are in your vehicle pretty much anywhere the public would not be permitted (as we often are) then your cover will be excluded.

The other thing that isn't quite as obviously related but is definitely worth thinking about is the exclusion of cover at 'hazardous locations'. These will include active airfields (even if they are suspended for the day/weekend) and MOD sites (ie. any rally marshals here).

The conditions above wouldn't have any impact on you being able to drive legally but could impact claims made within these areas.

I hope this helps and I'm happy to explain further if it helps.

[mark_l]

Originally Posted by Beej1

I marshal and work in car insurance.
Tell your broker/insurer that you do it, even if they decide they don't care, you've covered your own back.

The one condition we will call experience is the exclusion of cover in any sanctioned paddock or pits area. Ie. if you are in your vehicle pretty much anywhere the public would not be permitted (as we often are) then your cover will be excluded.

The other thing that isn't quite as obviously related but is definitely worth thinking about is the exclusion of cover at 'hazardous locations'. These will include active airfields (even if they are suspended for the day/weekend) and MOD sites (ie. any rally marshals here).

The conditions above wouldn't have any impact on you being able to drive legally but could impact claims made within these areas.

I hope this helps and I'm happy to explain further if it helps.

If you were marshalling at trackside or on a rally stage, and your car which was parked behind the post was damaged in an on track incident by a flying wheel for example, who could you claim off?

Would it be your own insurance, the competitors insurance or the organising clubs' insurance?

[TAJ_9]

Thanks for the response so far, just a quick update. I sent an email to my insurance company to get their response in writing. Basically they said for any volunteering I would need to inform them - both if I was using my car as part of this role or not. I could also claim expenses for fuel in this case.

However they confirmed that if I could not be "paid or recieved payment in kind". Therefore I assume I would have to list activities such as marshalling/scrutineering as a second, part time occupation? If so does anyone know what the occupation type would be listed as? (As obviously "motorsport scrutineer" or similar is not listed as an occupation for insurance)

Thanks

[Beej1]

Originally Posted by mark_l

If you were marshalling at trackside or on a rally stage, and your car which was parked behind the post was damaged in an on track incident by a flying wheel for example, who could you claim off?

Would it be your own insurance, the competitors insurance or the organising clubs' insurance?

You would be unlikely to be able to claim from your own insurance thanks to the exclusion of sanctioned competition areas. Part of your race/rally entry fee (provided it is an MSA sanctioned event) is for the insurance they provide for this type of incident (including damage to Third Party property and injury ie. competitors or marshals). Expect a long drawn out process for claiming though.

The competitor will likely have an Accidental Damage only policy thus excluding any damage they cause to anything else. There are a small number of more comprehensive policies available for competitors but they are few and far between and VERY expensive.

[Terrible-Tones]

Originally Posted by Beej1

The competitor will likely have an Accidental Damage only policy thus excluding any damage they cause to anything else.

Most Competitors (especially at club level) in Circuit racing don't carry insurance at all....

[Beej1]

Originally Posted by Terrible-Tones

Most Competitors (especially at club level) in Circuit racing don't carry insurance at all....

Absolutely true. I meant 'if at all' really.