Cadwell Park

[chunder]

It has to be said by someone, should we really be going to a track like this anymore, this is two deaths in two awful years, both teenagers!

Is it just bad luck or is the track just not able to cope with what is racing on it at this high level?

Is a terrible blow for all concerned and added to the tragedy last year I am sure those involved at the highest level must at least start to ask questions. I feel its like the TT debate though, every year there are people killed yet it just carries on, the need to race there is understandable, but Cadwell is so, so dangerous! I know it gets a massive crowd, but I am not sure how long it can carry on at this rate.

[Knowlesy]

The debate of Cadwell Park is totally secondary to todays sad loss I feel.

[bigjon]

Originally Posted by chunder

It has to be said by someone, should we really be going to a track like this anymore, this is two deaths in two awful years, both teenagers!

Is it just bad luck or is the track just not able to cope with what is racing on it at this high level?

Is a terrible blow for all concerned and added to the tragedy last year I am sure those involved at the highest level must at least start to ask questions. I feel its like the TT debate though, every year there are people killed yet it just carries on, the need to race there is understandable, but Cadwell is so, so dangerous! I know it gets a massive crowd, but I am not sure how long it can carry on at this rate.

Probably a debate to have later in the week in a different thread

watching today though it did strike me how dangerous the place looks, but equally how exciting and i'm sure its fantastic to ride

i dont know the circumstances surrounding the crash, but one would assume they'll be an investigation and things changed so it cant happen again

[chunder]

I feel very strongly about this as Cadwell used to be my local trck and I used to watch all forms of motorsport there for many years before moving down south. I love the place and consider it one of the last great challenges left in British racing.

However you have to quesiton the sanity of letting 200 hp, 180 mph bikes in huge grids race on that track sometimes!

I have done tracks days there and driven and ridden round the place and the start line is so unbelievably narrow! There is nothing MSV can do coz the track is right next to itself on its return leg on the way into Coppice! I just feel aggreived at yet another loss to go with the many that receive little press that I know of from living locally for 25 years.

It is a bit of a double edged sword coz Cadwell traditionally has been the best moneyspinner in terms of attendance for donkeys years, so do you scrap the round that makes the most money??

Not sure what the answer is but my feelings are not insensitive, I am not going to pretend that I knew the riders invovled and it would be crass to suggest that. But I do feel that this track should maybe have a limited grid size at the very least to try and prevent the horrendous bunching at the starts.

[jhansen]

I honestly know next to nothing about the track. But I did find an impressive photo gallery from the weekend's race. I mean come on, superbikes catching air? Ok, I can hear some of you say that's part of the charm. But from some of the wide angle shots, the place looks like a karting track.

I'm curious about the track's history and place in British motorsport though.

[sss]

Originally Posted by chunder

It has to be said by someone, should we really be going to a track like this anymore, this is two deaths in two awful years, both teenagers!

big can of worms, so where do we start..

so do we close any circuit that has had two fatalities in two years? That will be most of them then!

[sss]

Originally Posted by jhansen

I'm curious about the track's history and place in British motorsport though.

History of Cadwell Park

Set in the rolling Lincolnshire countryside, Cadwell Park was established in 1934. The length of the track, nicknamed the 'mini Nurburgring', almost doubled to 1.3 miles in 1953, when the ascendant 500cc motorcycle-engined Formula 3 class was invited to race in a traditional bike meeting. Reg Spreckley thus became the track's first car race winner in his Cooper. Some 30,000 spectators were said to have watched the meeting.

The original track, with its fearsome and photogenic Mountain feature, grew to its current 2.25-mile layout in 1962 and hosted the British F3 series the following May. It has three configurations – the rarely used Woodlands circuit, the short Club circuit, and the splendid, daunting Full circuit.

These days, its car racing exploits are confined to club meetings but they are invariably crackers, the track's swooping nature providing fantastic racing.

[Gaz]

I went to Cadwell for my first ever visit last weekend and so maybe I can offer a view of the circuit that is based on what I saw this weekend rather than letting the past slightly cloud my judgement.

On seeing that start finish straight my first thoughts were that is terrifying! The fact that bikes are doing 150+ over that line with a barrier little more than a few feet away is a little insane to get used to at first. The fact that the circuit comes back on itself on the opposite side of that barrier only makes me wonder what would happen if a rider came off at such a speed there - the kind of accident doesn't bare thinking about but as has been said nothing can be done.

Last years crash I'm led to believe was a freak circumstance that could have happened at any circuit. I wasn't there, didn't see it and am very sorry for the family involved but the circuit could not be to blame for such an accident from the reports I've heard from people who were there. It could have happened at Donington, Brands or any circuit in the country - it was just very unfortunate that it happened A. in the first place and B. at Cadwell Park.

I think the area out in the country has plenty of run off and the instalation of the new chicane seems to have scrubbed off speed on the approach to the mountain following the Yukio crash. A few riders fell at that point over race day and despite the accidents being quite spectacular no rider made it as far as the barrier where any serious damage could have been done.

The mountain is a spectacle that cannot be found anywhere else in British racing and is something that brings riders/fans back year on year.

The fact is that the circuit is a riders favourite and every single rider going out onto the grid at Cadwell is more aware of the risks than me, you or anyone who hasn't rode around that circuit at racing speeds.

I think I'm right in saying that the top guys in BSB are asked on a regular basis whether circuits are safe so surely through their experience they would ask MSV to act if they felt certain parts of the circuit are unsafe?

I'm sure all parties will look into Sunday's unfortunate accident and take any necessary action. I didn't see the accident but I'm led to believe a tyre wall was involved - should that have been there? Could it have been further back? Was it a freak incident? Non of those questions can be answered right now but I'm sure the relevant people will look into this and make changes if required.

Unfortunately these incidents happen and a balance needs to be found between the spectacle and safety. Bike racing is dangerous though and accidents from time to time will happen such as this - all riders are aware of Cadwell and the challenge it offers and I'm sure the vast majority would not want it sanitised by chicanes and I'm sure the challenge/the thrill that you must receive as a rider for getting it right would be taken away if swooping changes were brought in.

I think its a case of riders need to be consulted, Sunday's accident must be investigated correctly and then a sensible decision must be taken as to if changes to the circuit need to be made - not in a rash spur of the moment when emotions are still running very high such as now.

The incidents of the last 2 years have been massively upsetting and very unfortunate but I'm sure neither rider would want Cadwell to be removed from any future BSB calendar.

[nihil]

Originally Posted by jhansen

I'm curious about the track's history and place in British motorsport though.

Cadwell is loved for much the same reasons as Brands - wooded setting, swooping elevation changes - but has always been more associated with bikes rather than cars. And of course, there's The Mountain... Could you throw up a link to the gallery you found?

Don't know where to start on this discussion really, because the circuit is an emotional one for me. I spent most of 2004 in hospital, but watching Yukio Kagayama doing victory doughnuts on the spot of his previous years accident was inspiring. So while that image retains an almost permanent tenancy in the positive, mobilising side of my brain, I'd find it difficult to be objective about the wisdom of BSB continuing to use the place in its current form.

Haven't seen any detailed reports about the accident yet. Too soon, I guess...

EDIT: Gaz posted simultaneously, but cheers... you said pretty much everything I would have wanted to say!

[jhansen]

Here's the link:

http://londonbikers.com/galleries/ga...d-f8c64e5ce931

Park Straight:

http://londonbikers.com/galleries/im...8-b5e7413f9c2d

The Mountain:

http://londonbikers.com/galleries/im...9-1ebed1663fac

This one in particular is crazy!

http://londonbikers.com/galleries/im...4-1a5b30d322a2

[Dean Watson]

As a regular marshal for car meetings i can say that there has been various suggestions regarding track alterations from a car racing standpoint. the responces have been well that would improve things for the cars but ruin it for bikes. There are rumours that have been going round all year and some of these have been talked about on the trackside forum here in 10/10. The latest one I have heard and this is going back a couple of months is that (funding permitted) the circuit will undergo track widening through the winter. Cadwell has always been a demanding circuit and has had its share of misfortune but so have other circuits this year. I am sure that if people had some ideas on how and where to make improvements and contacted MSV they would probably take them on board.

my condolences go out to friends and family.

[nihil]

Originally Posted by jhansen

Here's the link:

Cheers for that - very useful site all round.

And I've seen lots of Mountain photos, but... [gasp] Johnny Rea, Johnny Rea...