Tourers @ Spa 24?

[cybersdorf]

As the World Touring Car championship - another attempt at it - is now under way I wonder if this series needs a highlight similar to what the Australian Supercars have in the Bathurst 1000. The Tourers now definitely have top billing over the GTs in the FIA weekends, with the exception of Spa, where the 24 Hours is the main event. Of course, this used to be a touringcar race. So why not establish a class for touring cars again, and make it a round of the WTCC as well as the FIA-GT?

[FIRE]

Would be great! I think at the moment there are enough S2000 cars available to get a full grid. A single event outside WTCC would be also an option.

In the 24h at the Ring there will be several S2000 cars (Schubert BMW, JAS Honda).

[cybersdorf]

Originally Posted by FIRE

Would be great! I think at the moment there are enough S2000 cars available to get a full grid. A single event outside WTCC would be also an option.

Except they wouldn't get a full grid. They'd get 25% of it.

In the 24h at the Ring there will be several S2000 cars (Schubert BMW, JAS Honda).

Mainly because the German Production Car Championship is dying on its feet.

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by cybersdorf

Except they wouldn't get a full grid. They'd get 25% of it.

I am afraid you are right.

Originally Posted by cybersdorf

Mainly because the German Production Car Championship is dying on its feet.

Indeed

[cybersdorf]

Originally Posted by FIRE

I am afraid you are right.

Of course I'm right, because it's my idea and I want it that way. Seriously, give entries to the to 10 or 12 WTCC cars, they'll need 3 or 4 drivers for each car anyway. Award points at 6 and 12 hours, and double points at 24. I think they can keep up at least with the GT2/Group 2/Group 3 cars.

[Kicking-back]

The WTCC cars would need to pit for fuel every 25 minutes

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by Kicking-back

The WTCC cars would need to pit for fuel every 25 minutes

So what?

[cybersdorf]

Bigger tanks? I am told they have been invented already.

[E46]

Originally Posted by cybersdorf

Bigger tanks? I am told they have been invented already.

Are you talking seriously? If it´s true it would be a fantastic new...

[E46]

Originally Posted by cybersdorf

Bigger tanks? I am told they have been invented already.

I misunderstood your last post, forget what I wrote.

[BSchneiderFan]

I doubt many of the WTCC cars would last round the clock anyway.

[kmchow]

Originally Posted by BSchneiderFan

I doubt many of the WTCC cars would last round the clock anyway.

How about make it a 12 hours race then? Run the touring cars at the Spa 24hours or somewhere else for a shorter time? 8 hours?

Do S2000 cars have smaller race tanks than regular cars? How much fuel does the fuel cell carry?

[cybersdorf]

Originally Posted by kmchow

How about make it a 12 hours race then? Run the touring cars at the Spa 24hours or somewhere else for a shorter time? 8 hours?

Well it's a 24hr race after all. You mean the tourers aren't up to it?

[redshoes]

These cars are built for sprint races not long-distance enduros. It's a little more involved that just outting in a bigger tank and buying some in-race refueling equipment. The brakes won't last a full 24 hrs, so you need to be able to change those mid-race. Changing pads is a simple enough job but changing pads when they are red hot after several hours use is a different matter. The engines would need replacing with something less stressed and more able to last 24 hrs continuous use. It's liek asking a 100m sprinter to run a marathon.

Like most things in life all these problems are fixable if you have enough money and time to develop them, but for a single race is it worth the cost?

[BSchneiderFan]

The other point to bear in mind is that the last time the FIA ran a World Touring Car Championship, in 1987, it was an endurance title anyway, so doing 24 hours wasn't so much of a stretch.

[cybersdorf]

Hm. So in fact not only are the cars not up to it anmore, the (works!) teams aren't, either. Pity.

[redshoes]

cybersdorf, are you deliberatly trying to troll or have you misread what I said.

The teams and cars ARE up to it IF you are willing to spend bucket loads of cash on development. It's like asking a Le Mans team to run in the Paris-Dakar

[Adam43]

In some ways the current teams would be doing a bad job if their sprint WTTC cars could last 24 hours!

[cybersdorf]

Originally Posted by redshoes

cybersdorf, are you deliberatly trying to troll or have you misread what I said.

Question mark.

The teams and cars ARE up to it IF you are willing to spend bucket loads of cash on development. It's like asking a Le Mans team to run in the Paris-Dakar

Like ORECA, you mean?
S2000 cars are currently used in long distance competition; by non-works teams. There is no black magic involved in making them last. Money, yes. Money is also involved in making a 996 last 24 hours. "But they were built for it" - they were built to go fast within their rules; the longevity came afterwards.

No 24hr race is cheap, it just depends on what you get in return. All these FIA-GT teams WILL BE spending comparative bucket loads of cash on the Spa 24. Why? - quadruple points.

I believe a handful of S2000 cars are entered for the Ring 24 (where there is precisely nothing at stake except... what, glory?), we will see if they can be made last by teams of which I do not believe any are big-budget works outfits, at least not overtly. If a team like Schubert will be able to do it, then there won't be any reason to believe N-Technology/Autodelta or Schnitzer will not.

[redshoes]

The point is that the WTCC is a series based around short sprint races, not endurances races, that's what the teams want. Why do you want to turn into something it's not?

[SALEEN S7R]

Originally Posted by cybersdorf

Question mark.


Like ORECA, you mean?
S2000 cars are currently used in long distance competition; by non-works teams. There is no black magic involved in making them last. Money, yes. Money is also involved in making a 996 last 24 hours. "But they were built for it" - they were built to go fast within their rules; the longevity came afterwards.

No 24hr race is cheap, it just depends on what you get in return. All these FIA-GT teams WILL BE spending comparative bucket loads of cash on the Spa 24. Why? - quadruple points.

I believe a handful of S2000 cars are entered for the Ring 24 (where there is precisely nothing at stake except... what, glory?), we will see if they can be made last by teams of which I do not believe any are big-budget works outfits, at least not overtly. If a team like Schubert will be able to do it, then there won't be any reason to believe N-Technology/Autodelta or Schnitzer will not.

Im with u Cybers, would be a fantastic thing to see happen and IMO is very doable. As u have pointed out there are Super 2000 cars in races such as the Nurburgring 24hrs, I dont see any reason why they coudnt race in the Spa 24hrs too, and run reasonably competitvly, at least up there with the quicker GT3 cars, the GT2 cars I feel would be a little faster, even the slower ones, at least in qualifying. Lets hope ur idea comes to fruition.

[cybersdorf]

Originally Posted by redshoes

The point is that the WTCC is a series based around short sprint races, not endurances races, that's what the teams want. Why do you want to turn into something it's not?

Then why are there still people who want to go endurance racing with.....

.....touring cars?

Are they wrong?

[redshoes]

No, they aren't wrong but they are doing 'Ring 24hrs, Britcar, VLM or whatever, not WTCC, which is after all what we are talking about here.

[cybersdorf]

And WTCC with a Blue Riband 24 hour race in it is WTCC *plus.
Dare to aspire!
I'd say the drivers would be up for the challenge.

[SALEEN S7R]

Maybe Redshoes relutcance to the idea is due in part to the fact that the WTCC cars woudnt actually be dominating the lime light so to speak? If the WTCC machines were to race alongside the GT1/GT2/GT3 cars in the Spa 24hrs the best they could realisticly hope for IMO is a top 10 finish, and that now considering the FIA GT series professionalism and reliabilty would be a long shot I think. I wonder, if say we were talking about the DTM grid racing alongside the Spa 24hrs usual grid would people not be a little more how shall we say "eager"? Why? Because the DTM cars would have a good realistic shot at the overall win and woudnt look like they are going around in reverse compared to the GT1 field.