Nordschleife

[Edmonton]

Do you think sportscars could race on the Nordschleife?

[gfm]

They do.

[Edmonton]

Originally posted by gfm
They do.

What about the prototypes?

[gfm]

No.

[danhx]

Sure they could, but could they do it without killing people is the question.

[cybersdorf]

Impossible. Such cars are too fast.

[paulzinho]

They managed it at the very start of the 80's... and they weren't exactly slow.

[cybersdorf]

And they crashed left right & center.

[gfm]

It's the tyres that make such a difference today - they and long travel suspension don't mix and couldn't cope with the surface undulations (not the virtical curves, but the surface camber changes). 956/962 era had a lot of undercar aero to pull them down.
Modern generic road car stuff is about it (for strength as much as anything else, in case of shunt), and of course to have a race worth finding that many staff for, means you need a 100 car field.

[cybersdorf]

180 car field at every endurance round; 210 cars at the 24. But, no prototypes. They won't ever be back. That's what the new track is for.

[Karl Kling]

It would be interresting to let an Audi R8 (or other LMPs) loose on the ring to see if it can beat the Porsche 956 (or was it 962?) lap record of 6:11...

[cybersdorf]

Karl Kling?? I thought you were dead...

Why would Audi take the risk of writing off a car in a test that would be totally inconclusive for them, and frankly pointless?

[danhx]

The problem is finding a driver crazy enough to actually wantto driive straight into death's mirky depths. Who do you think would want to stare into the misty eyes of doom and wheel an Audi 'round the circle of death? (excuse my poetic waxing) Tom K. can be pretty nuts behind the wheel, but is he certifiably insane? Magnussen is daring, but psychotic? Perhaps a GT man like Luhr who's absolute mastery behind the wheel could keep him out of the dirt? I know there are some brave men in the world of sportscars right now, but are any cracked up enough to tackle the gaunlet knowing full well the scores of men who've tangoed with her and lost?

Of course the Audi probably has enough downforce to keep it stuck to the road in most cases, especially if you pile on all the grip you can. But as someone else said, the track surface is so worn and inconsistent there that it seems like the only cars that can safely manouver it are GT cars who don't react quite as violently to track surfaces.

[danhx]

Originally posted by cybersdorf

Why would Audi take the risk of writing off a car in a test that would be totally inconclusive for them, and frankly pointless?

Publicity is the only reason i can think of, but even then the only people that would care at all are those who follow sportscars pretty closely and have a modest working knowledge of racing history so that they know the story of the track. So it would have pretty much no value to the company as a selling point for their road cars.

[Lee Janotta]

It's possible, but they'd need to resurface the track in places, to take out the big bumps that would rip off the underbody of a prototype. There are a couple places where runoff could and should be added, many more places where tire barriers could make _all_ the difference... They need to add Indy-style softwalls in most of the corners, and they need to tear up the Karrusel and mini-karrusel and repave them both as conventional NASCAR-style banked corners, 35 degrees all the from the inside to the outside.

The Group C race in '83 suffered from adequate consideration not given to the increased performance of the new cars.

It'd probably take a half a million dollars, maybe more, but they could bring the track up to a reasonable standard of safety.

It's something I've been looking into for a while, as part of my plan for a new World Sportscar Championship. 6 mile or longer tracks all around the globe hosting GTs and prototypes. Imagine, old Spa, the Nordschliefe, the Targa Floria, a variation of the old Buenos Aires combined road/street course, Montlhery... Maybe even the old Watkins Glen circuit!

[Lee Janotta]

BTW, I'm sure Ringmeister Hans Joachim Stuck would be more than happy to take a crack at the record.

[cybersdorf]

Originally posted by Lee Janotta
...and they need to tear up the Karrusel and mini-karrusel and repave them both as conventional NASCAR-style banked corners, 35 degrees all the from the inside to the outside...

..and whoever would attempt to do all this would find themselves dangling from the highest tree in the Eifel forest before they could say "Schwalbenschwanz".

Let's not forget that the old track is a national monument. You don't add a fifth president to Mount Rushmore, you don't repave the Carousel. Also, the Carousel and small Carousel are too tight for 35 deg banking. - Finally, why should the Nürburgring GmbH do all this when they have a state-of-the-art track available to them?

[Lee Janotta]

Yeah, too true. On the other hand, the Karussel's paving started coming apart all on it's own during the 24-hour race last year. It might have to be done sooner or later.

Too tight for 35 degree banking? No such thing. Raise the ground on the outside, lower it on the inside... Boom, banking.

Uhm... Because the GP Strecke is garbage? Because bikers die there every year, and the changes would help them too? And like I said, because the Karussel's starting to come apart.

[veeten]

but maybe they don't want a NASCAR-like corner on the circuit.

not everyone has a taste equalling the likes of a corn-dog, moon pies, and Royal Crown Cola. So let's just re-pave it the way it is and leave it at that, okay?...

[Lee Janotta]

veeten, I love it the way it is. But it's not practical... The Group C cars couldn't use the banking because they bottomed out on the crown at the outside edge of the banking.



Now if I hadn't used the "N" word, you guys probably wouldn't be nearly as resistant.

[Lee Janotta]

veeten, I love it the way it is. But it's not practical... The Group C cars couldn't use the banking because they bottomed out on the crown at the outside edge of the banking.



Now if I hadn't used the "N" word, you guys probably wouldn't be nearly as resistant.

[Fiorentina 1]

Yes they race touring cars there. Check out www.vln.de. I'm actually planning on doing a few rounds this season in a Group N Opel or Renault. Last round Christian Abt qualified his DTM Audi on pole....

Imagine the Audi R8 there. Oh man!!!!!!!

[Rob29]

Never seen the point of 'prototypes'If they were literally prototypes,ie,intended for road use,they should be capable of being driven on any road surface.For racing I have always thought that we should have just single seaters and road cars.

[Fab]

Originally posted by Rob29
Never seen the point of 'prototypes'If they were literally prototypes,ie,intended for road use,they should be capable of being driven on any road surface.For racing I have always thought that we should have just single seaters and road cars.

You may no be very interrested by this forum (just kidding, no offense)...

[cybersdorf]

Originally posted by Lee Janotta
Yeah, too true. On the other hand, the Karussel's paving started coming apart all on it's own during the 24-hour race last year.

But it always does that!

Too tight for 35 degree banking? No such thing. Raise the ground on the outside, lower it on the inside... Boom, banking.

Crunsh, more crashes. Splash, "race rained out". You can't have such banked turns on an "all-weather" race course.

Uhm... Because the GP Strecke is garbage?[/B][/QUOTE]

Is it really. It's nothing special, and with every change they make it worse IMO but in the end, it's a modern multipurpose facility, and therefore almost inevitably has to be bland. The Ring isn't bland, but it also isn't "multipurpose".