[Driver] Brendon Hartley in F1

[Razzzor]

It's funny I always thought Brendon was a little bit behind Mitch Evans, Richie Stanaway and Chris van der Drift. And of course Dixon but pigs will fly before F1 teams will look at Indycar. Silly really because Newgarden would have been great to see at the US GP, might have got a lot more media coverage. Rossi too, the Indy 500 champ guesting in F1.

Back to the kiwis, Mitch just landed in the wrong teams, or right team in the case of Russian Time but wrong timing when they were at their weakest. Stanaway had a lot bad luck (that Lotus 3.5 campaign was ridiculous) but is prone to mistakes (see Le Mans 2017 where he binned a sure win). But he's very fast, proved that he can drive anything with his Sandown and Bathurst performances. Chris disappeared, probably no money. Bamber is also very good. Nick Cassidy really the only average driver from NZ on the international scene (and even he took pole at the last Super Formula race). But Brendon got that RB junior support so really was the only one capable of reaching F1 in the early years.

Looking over Hartley's career it's interesting to look back now and see who some of his team mates were.

He won the 2007 Eurocup 2.0 against Charles Pic. Jaime Alguersuari was his team mate also in the RB programme I think at that time. At the same time he was competing in Formula Rental 2.0 Italia and was beaten by his team mates Mika Maki and Alguersuari to the title, with only 1 race win. I didn't watch that season but he did have twice as many retirements as Maki.

Next year again team mates with Alguersuari and Oliver Turvey in British F3. Algeursuari got the title, Hartley again 3rd behind his team mates. However, he was often the quickest of the three and just had bad luck during the year. Six retirements to Turvey's 1, Algeursuari 2. Oh Ricciardo was in the series that year too, finishing 6th. Sergio Perez finished 4th.

Next year 2009 F3. This is where everything went downhill and he failed to deliver. Just 1 race win and only 11th in points. Bianchi took the title, Bottas 3rd. Hartley beat his team mates but more would have been expected than 11th. Although Carlin was new to F3. He also competed in 3.5, team mate to Pic who finished 3rd while Hartley struggled to 15th. He did miss 2 rounds, being replaced by Ricciardo who actually struggled as well. Was he spreading himself too thin doing 2 series? It was Tech 1 though, a quick team that won the constructors titles 4 times between 2007-2012.

The following year he stayed in 3.5 with Tech 1 (how I don't know) but mid season RB dropped him from the programme as his results weren't good enough. Ricciardo was now his team mate who eventually finished 2nd in points with 4 wins, Hartley had none by seasons end. His results were better than the year before, however mid-season he got dropped from the team and replaced by Vergne, who straight away went on a run of 1-3-3-2nd to outscore Hartley in just 6 races. I thought that was it for the kiwi, he was fast but for whatever reason the 2009 and 2010 seasons he struggled to match his team mates. They were good team mates though, we didn't know at the time Ricciardo would go in to become one of the best in F1.

Hartley actually managed to score a GP2 drive for the last two rounds that year and actually did pretty well to finish in the points in both races at Yas Marina. There were a lot of good drivers in Gp2 that year; Maldonado, Perez, Grosjean, Bianchi, Bird, Turvey, van der Gardge, Valescchi, Pic, d'Ambrosio, Ericsson, Leimer, Filippi, even Chilton. So that 6th place was pretty good in the finale, ahead of Bianchi and champion Maldonado in what wasn't one of the top teams.

That led to a stay in 3.5 in 2011 with Gravity–Charouz Racing, a year where Brendon suddenly found his form again. It was a backmarker team, team mate (boss) only scored 10 points to Hartley's 95 which ended up being 7th in points. But he was behind a pretty good bunch of drivers; Wickens, Vergne, Rossi, Ricciardo, Albert Costa (great driver that never really got to the top of the ladder... probably lack of funds).

He got the last 2 Gp2 rounds again, this time for Ocean Racing (not exactly a leading team) and straight away finished 5th in his first race ahead of team mate Cecotto Jr. He did a couple more races in 2012, not great results but faster than Nigel Melker and Jon Lancaster. Not exactly cream of the crop though, Hartley's chances had gone in that 09/10 seasons where his team mates Alguersuari, Ricciardo and Vergne all moved on to F1.

After that he somehow scored a Rolex Sports Car drive, got a win, did an LMP2 drive where he did well, then through somewhat of a miracle scored the LMP1 Porsche drive. It took a long time for them to get that first win, their first season was plagued with bad luck. But the second season with them was dominant, 4 wins in a row and the title. 2016 another 4 wins but Le Mans and the first 2 rounds put them so far back in points they couldn't catch their team mates, despite being faster in most races. 2017 has seen them get the lucky side of the garage this time, another 4 wins including 24 Hours and they're currently more than 2 race wins ahead of 2nd in points with only 3 rounds to go. If they win this weekend, it's the title.

Did anyone notice Hartley did a guest drive in the last round of the WeatherTech Sports Cars and outright won?

I was expecting Porsche to keep Hartley for their 2019 FE campaign, meaning he'll be on the sidelines for 2018 or perhaps a LMGTE for a year. Although no announcement yet maybe Hartley doesn't want to wait. But gosh with Ganassi now wanting him for the #10 and now the possibility of a F1 drive for 2018 if he does well at the US GP, it's all up for Brendon! I hope he doesn't blow it.

I do think TR would have been better off with Buemi who's been the master of FE since its inception, even bring Vergne back. Perhaps they really are looking at Hartley as a 2019 driver, whereas Verge and Buemi already have contracts they may want to keep. Amazing that RB are at a point where they're recycling ex-junior drivers because they don't want to hire someone outside their programme. I guess they don't want to groom a driver contracted to Mercedes or Ferrari in case he turns out awesome.

[Adam43]

Cool Hartley for the great unwashed. Thanks

There is not much more to add. Other than I'm thrilled to see him get a go.

[cds_uk]

Excellent write up Razzzor, i have liked Hartley from back in the F3 days and like most people i thought his chance had gone, looking back i think his stint with the Murphy boys in LMP2 did him a huge amount of good, he was clearly the fastest driver in the class and obviously someone at Porsche was paying attention. So fingers crossed that he has a good weekend, would dearly love to see him get the seat for next year however unlikely it seems.

[S griffin]

I'm looking forward to seeing how he does. It's nice he's finally got a chance. It's nice to know F1 drivers can miss races and give one off chances

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Cool Hartley for the great unwashed. Thanks

There is not much more to add. Other than I'm thrilled to see him get a go.

Me too. Great to see a sportscar racer getting a chance to show how good the top sportscar drivers are.

[Graz]

The last driver to go to F1 from sportscars did alright...

[skycafe]

Originally Posted by cds_uk

Excellent write up Razzzor,

I second that, outstanding!

[OZ_HCR32]

I have always liked Hartley but in doing so freely acknowledge that whilst quick his head is often all over the place. Mistakes, losing pace mid stint etc. I think that shows why he has struggled in series as a young spud.

I think in Hartley you had a driver that had pace to burn but whose wasn't mature as other young drivers who excel when young. I think the few years in sportscars (where he has made plenty of mistakes) has been great for him and he is now a far more complete driver.

He isnt getting his F1 debut on merit but I am glad he is. And I doubt he would have done any better any earlier in his career so hopefully he gets agood result today in Japan and rocks up to COTA and shows maturity, pace and consistency...as I would love to see him raise eye brows and take Kyvats seat next year as Kyvat is off with the fairies and liek Hartley many years ago needs time away to get his head straight (IMO)

[Armco Bender]

Good to see someone get into F1 on talent and not because his father is a multi billionaire.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by Armco Bender

Good to see someone get into F1 on talent and not because his father is a multi billionaire.

It would indeed be a fairy tale for Mr Hartley to not only be competitive, but potentially stay is this seat in more races this year, and beyond.

STR could do worse, and seemingly have done..

You would imagine with the clean sheet development of the Porsche 919 WEC car that Mr Hartley might also be in a unique position to aid in the testing and calibration of the Honda powerplant package for next season also.

A point on debut isn't too much to ask is it?

[Nikki Katz]

It’s weird that there’s suddenly a hole in the red bull juniors line, sky mentioned last week that their next drivers are still in karts. So I guess that if they’re looking to replace kvyat (tbh they have given him a lot of chances) and don’t want someone from outside red bull then they have to get drivers they’ve previously released. It’s a weird situation they’ve found themselves in. I guess that Hartley is because he hasn’t been given an f1 shot before, and that he’s out of contract for next year, unlike buemi and vergne, who it sounds like from the first post are the better drivers. I wondered if Honda might place someone there next year, but again now that there’s the superlicence points requirement, who? Rossi is already under contract, I don’t think that their gp2 driver whose name i’ve Just forgotten qualifies

[S griffin]

Hartley has certainly matured in Sportscars, so hopefully he can make an impression in Austin

[Razzzor]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

You would imagine with the clean sheet development of the Porsche 919 WEC car that Mr Hartley might also be in a unique position to aid in the testing and calibration of the Honda powerplant package for next season also.

Yeah that's a point, Hartley has been part of developing that Porsche to championship status. Along with his F1 sim work, RB might be banking on Hartley being very good at development work with the Honda. I don't think they'd expect as much out of Gasly, as he struggled to get the GP2 Dams set up. Did pretty well with Prema the following year but how much of that was just Prema's massive resources that they shifted over from F3, where they've clearly been gotten slower this year.

No one else in the Gp2 field will have Hartley's development experience either.

[HDTVKSS]

Im really happy to see Hartley get his F1 chance finally. He is really what has kept my interest in LMP since Webber retired.

yes hes been prone to mistakes but those have eased off over the past few years hes shown in the Porsche hes really as fast as anyone on his day.

I think that being surrounded by the likes of Webber, Lotterer, Bernhard, Hulkenberg, Leib etc has done him a lot of good. I'm not sure if any have helped him out ala Webber and Mitch Evans, but these guys are a good yard stick and he would have had a lot of exposure to seeing how they go about their craft.

Also, a top LMP1 team is really the closest thing you can get to F1 in terms of the budget, resources and teams around you. This should have prepared him well.

As long as the car holds together and he avoids the mid / back of pack argey-bargey, i wouldn't be surprised to see him give Gasly a run for his money.

From the other side, its good to see Red Bull perhaps admit they were slightly wrong with him / have noticed his potential again and given him another chance. I cant think of many others (Kvyat?) that they have done that for.

[FlyingKiwi]

Stanaway is prone to mistakes? You've got to be kidding! As a teenager you don't win 12 out of 18 Formel Masters races and 13 out of 18 German F3 races if you make mistakes ... by noting the Le Mans error you chose the only significant racing mistake of his entire career. Stanaway is quite possibly the most gifted driver to come out of New Zealand and considering the other possibilities are Amon and Thackwell, that's really saying something.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by FlyingKiwi

Stanaway is prone to mistakes? You've got to be kidding! As a teenager you don't win 12 out of 18 Formel Masters races and 13 out of 18 German F3 races if you make mistakes ... by noting the Le Mans error you chose the only significant racing mistake of his entire career. Stanaway is quite possibly the most gifted driver to come out of New Zealand and considering the other possibilities are Amon and Thackwell, that's really saying something.

Hmm, wasn't there some bloke called McLaren too? Not to mention a certain Denis Hulme?

Pleased for Hartley, I just hope it works out for him.

[Razzzor]

Originally Posted by FlyingKiwi

Stanaway is prone to mistakes? You've got to be kidding! As a teenager you don't win 12 out of 18 Formel Masters races and 13 out of 18 German F3 races if you make mistakes ... by noting the Le Mans error you chose the only significant racing mistake of his entire career. Stanaway is quite possibly the most gifted driver to come out of New Zealand and considering the other possibilities are Amon and Thackwell, that's really saying something.

I think I can remember two instances of Stanaway leading a race and caught completely asleep at a VSC restart and being passed. One was in GP3, can't remember where the other one was but I couldn't believe he did the same thing twice.

Also his 2 GP2 wins were a little lucky at the end. He overcooked the tyres at Monaco and had nothing left at the end, another lap he probably would have been passed. Then his second GP2 win he did the same thing and somehow got passed on the last lap with just a few corners to go. Through pure luck, a yellow or red flag suddenly ended the race and they had to go back to the previous timing line, where Richie was still ahead.

His 3.5 campaign also had some crashes, the most notable breaking his back when he went over the back of another car. That's one I'd consider significant, more than his Le Mans crash. But yeah WEC has been a bit disappointing for him, he's had what 2 wins in 5 years, team mates went on to be champs.

But anyway I'm not denying his talent, I think he's extremely quick and done wonders with most of the cars he's been in, which have normally not been leading teams. Just a shame he never got picked up as he might have been noticed a bit more - the Lotus drive in 3.5 was really his best chance to get noticed because it should have been a top team that year, but sadly that's the one where nothing went right and the team seem to suddenly have some issues as well because his team mate was struggling too. But yeah one of the quickest drivers around I think. I know others on this forum don't rate him quite as highly but I'm a bit biased

I actually feel a little disappointed he wants to return home to V8 Supercars. He has such potential on the international scene and the creds, V8SC he could come back and do in a decade, anytime he wants. Plus its already got some fantastic kiwi drivers in it with Giz, Scotty, Fabs. Andre might not be finished yet either.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by FlyingKiwi

Stanaway is prone to mistakes? You've got to be kidding! As a teenager you don't win 12 out of 18 Formel Masters races and 13 out of 18 German F3 races if you make mistakes ... by noting the Le Mans error you chose the only significant racing mistake of his entire career. Stanaway is quite possibly the most gifted driver to come out of New Zealand and considering the other possibilities are Amon and Thackwell, that's really saying something.

Welcome to TenTenths!

Richard

[OZ_HCR32]

The other point which is why I have my hopes up is that despite the fact its been a while since he has piloted an open wheeler, the LMP1 cars are not exactly slouches and he has gone from winning Petit Le Mans race in A DPi car, to racing his 919 LMP1 car to this weekend in Austin in a F1 car...all in 3 consecutive weekends

So he is pretty experienced camapigner these days with regards to jumping into different teams, cars and environments with Continental tyres in DPi car and Michelin in LMP1 Porsche etc. He would have learned a great deal from years within Porsche alongside Webber and Timo and hopefully this year looked at how Lotterer goes about a race weekend.

Given plenty of running in FP1 and FP2 I think he can do the job....the big challenge will be these silly Pirelli tyres and how he can keep them in the window.

Anyway...will be great to have a fella back in STR that I can support. I will try and bag some merch for his one off race appearance

[courageous]

Need to be realistic and compare him to how Lotterer did in his 1 off for Caterham(?)

If he can be within half a second of Kvyat's pace & finish the race I would say that is job done.

[S griffin]

I think he has nothing to lose. It’s not like he’s using it for a future F1 career AFAIK, he can just go out and show F1 a talented driver they missed out on

[RWill2073]

Originally Posted by S griffin

I think he has nothing to lose. It’s not like he’s using it for a future F1 career AFAIK, he can just go out and show F1 a talented driver they missed out on

Well, I would put him in a seat above Di Resta or Massa and probably ahead of Kubicza. So if he were to venture away from Red Bull, he could warrant a shot elsewhere. But maybe I'm overrating him, idk.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by RWill2073

Well, I would put him in a seat above Di Resta or Massa and probably ahead of Kubicza. So if he were to venture away from Red Bull, he could warrant a shot elsewhere. But maybe I'm overrating him, idk.

Hartley to Williams?

With Potsie hanging around as Martini brand ambassador?

[F1Guy]

Anyone have any information on this Kubicza guy? First I've heard of him.

I've heard of a Paul di Resta though.

[knighty]

Totally agree......if Hartley puts in a solid performance at TorroRosso, I think Williams would be silly to not consider him......he has made a good name for himself by winning LeMans and possibly will soon be the WEC drivers champ, quite a seasoned driver........either way, I think he will be better than DiResta and Kubica.......I think we already have the answer for both drivers, Kubica was about as good as Palmer........and for me DiResta is an arrogant type, who thinks he is better than any car he has ever driven, Anthony Hamilton summed him up perfectly in their court case. Diresta quite simply has not yet made a name for himself.