Land Speed Records

[DanJR1]

do they count if the attempt is done on ice?

[StephenRae]

Wouldn't that be a water speed record

[DanJR1]

well thats what im asking! lol.

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by DanJR1

do they count if the attempt is done on ice?

If it has wheels, yes; if it has skis, it is a snomobile.

Thirty five years ago, snomobile factories put big money into speed records, and at a site I saw a little while back, the first V-8 powered speed sled, built in ten years, will make an attempt this year.

Bob

[imull]

is there anywhere long enough for a thrust ssc type attempts?

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by imull

is there anywhere long enough for a thrust ssc type attempts?

If you mean on ice, well, the surface would have to be smooth, and therefore, miles of ice would have to be graded (or a hoarde of Zambonis would have to prep. the ice ) plus there is a problem with pressure building underneath the ice (this causes trouble with cars and trucks going too fast on lake roads), and stopping would be strictly by parachute.

Snowmobiles, use a short track mainly for reasons of cost of preparing a track on ice.
It used to be a quarter mile but depending on where it is, some still run to 1,000 ft.(many are only 600 ft. now) and they still get going very fast.
If there was big money in it, speeds and distances would increase dramtically.

I did some freelance works at Winterfest, in Wisc. ten years ago(they had speed runs one day and drags the next) and asked what it would take to have both the speed runs and drags on longer tracks, and the person in charge said money.
She said, you find some one to put up the money and we will build any length track you want.
Bob
PS-The last year I was there, the gent running in the unlimited speed class, who had the year before had a vehicle with a 500 in.cu. Arias Hemi, came back with the previously mentioned vehicle and another powered by a 500 in.cu. Arias DOHC V-8; such glorius sounds!

[DanJR1]

anyone know the official word on this? would the machine have to have wheels as well as blades/skates/things?

[Adam43]

LSR machines should have (at least?) four wheels. All of which much touch the ground for the entire measured distance IIRC.

[thebear]

Originally Posted by DanJR1

do they count if the attempt is done on ice?

I would doubt that any are recognized as outright records as the speed must be sustained over a finite distance in km & miles. Where would you find enough suitable surface as well as stopping/turnaround? The speeds have to be averaged two ways as well. There are also distances covered/time and those are for hours/days, etc.

[DanJR1]

Originally Posted by AdamAshmore

LSR machines should have (at least?) four wheels. All of which much touch the ground for the entire measured distance IIRC.

Think i can see a way round this

[DaveStyles]

Land speed record...

Now that everthing is jet driven... I've always wondered why they don't just use an F14..

fly it up to the measured mile.. at MACH2 say ?

touch down just before... do the mile and lift off again.. do it the other direction... bingo !

Surely you just need special wheels that won't blowout ?

I wonder how fast you can taxi a jet fighter anyway... ?

I think it all went a bit meaningless after it stopped being wheel driven.

[StephenRae]

Originally Posted by DaveStyles

Land speed record...

Now that everthing is jet driven... I've always wondered why they don't just use an F14..

fly it up to the measured mile.. at MACH2 say ?

I think you've got it sorted here Dave.... at mach 2 you would only have to 'land' for about 3 secs, the pilot could always eject if a tyre blew! While you were at it a quick splash would sort the water speed record and there must be a mile long flat iceburg somewhere.....

[Ryo28]

Originally Posted by DaveStyles

Land speed record...

Now that everthing is jet driven... I've always wondered why they don't just use an F14..

fly it up to the measured mile.. at MACH2 say ?

touch down just before... do the mile and lift off again.. do it the other direction... bingo !

Surely you just need special wheels that won't blowout ?

Or just take its wings off!

[DanJR1]

already bin done. www.landspeed.com

[JGM]

Henry Ford (THE Henry Ford) broke the LSR in January 1904 driving a Ford Arrow (what else) on ice over Lake St Clair near Detroit. His record was 91.37 MPH. Another ice LSR attempt is currently being planned. www.sonicwind.com

[DaveStyles]

I don't believe it...

it was my master plan, and they beat me to it !

grrr !

[DanJR1]

so back to original question! is there any rule that says you have to run on a certain surface? and what the rule on wheels?

[pirenzo]

I don't think there are any rules as to what surfaces you have to run on.
Ice might not be the best surface to run on, the wheels of any car would heat up quite a lot at mach 1, they'd probably melt the ice and start sinking into it slightly which would rapidly increase rolling friction. I remember reading this was a problem for the Thrust SSC team initially when they ran in the Black Rock desert, the surface was too soft.

The official speed is the average of two runs through a timed section a mile long (the run up to that mile can be as long as you like however), where the runs are completed in opposite directions to negate the effect of winds and must also be completed within one hour of the first run.

The cars have to have 4 wheels, and all 4 wheels must remain in contact with the road for the entirety of the measured mile.

I don't think you could do it with an F14.
If you tried to land a plane at those speeds the undercarriage would simply fail, nevermind the tyres which would probably also explode. They're both designed for use within specific limits, and LSR attempts aren't a consideration!

[RED21]

On Thursday 4th February 1988, not far from the Artic Circle on the frozen lake Hornavan, near the village of Arjeplog, in North Sweden, a Renault 21 Turbo driven by Jean Pierre Malcher attains the World Speed record on Ice, reaching a top speed of 250.610 KPH/155 MPH using Michelin studded tyres.
http://www.renault21turbo.homestead....ce_record.html

[DanJR1]

so as long as the vehicle has four wheels in contact with the floor, its elidgable? i was think about the sonic wind concept. just have four tiny wheels somewhere (size of ball bearings or somethin) along with the blades which the thing would run on.

[pirenzo]

yeah. But you have to remember that if the car bottoms out, you'll slow down, and also, the wheel tracks will diminish in size the smaller they are. They've got to be visible if you want to prove they were in contact the whole time...

LSR is quite interesting though. You have to think about all sorts of things which you wouldn't in a racing car. Such as rolling friction as I mentioned above. Most sorts of friction would be desirable in a car, as that is what the car grips on. If you're being forced along by a huge jet engine, you want the wheels to turn with as much ease as possible. I think Thrust SSC's wheels were akin to a train's...

[chunder]

Sonic wind has been in around for about 10 yeras now and is a rocket sled on ice basically.
hae always wondered ow ice rund can be allowed especiall wi the vehicle running on runners rather tan wheels. Afer all that is a whole area of engineering left nulland void. Anyone who knows te history here willknow that Arfons was gonna break Breedloves 600 run in the green Monster whe he put out a wheel bearing and and smashed te thing o smithereens so being able to not worry about designig wheels and stuff seems very unfair.
And as for the whold thing being a bit pointless afe the wheels stopped being driven. Well I for oe can applaud the breaking of the sound arrier on land as one of the most amazing achievements of the last 20 years both in an emotional and engineering sense. Read Nobles ook and ten tell me it was all a bit pointless!!

[pirenzo]

Indeed, Arfons was lucky to escape with his life!

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by pirenzo

Indeed, Arfons was lucky to escape with his life!

A sad thing is, that Arfons sold the rebuilt Green Monster to a fellow for a bargain price and and prepped it for the same fellow for a speed run.

At about 500mph the fellow found that he not only had a yellow stripe down his back but over his entire body.
Arfons wanted to buy the car back, as he knew it could easily beat Noble's 633 mph, but the person he sold it to wanted millions for what he paid thousands for, so Arfons built the small car, but he knew that one was only good for about 650 mph, which with the speed both Breedlove and Green were hitting was not even worth the effort.

Sad as I really would have liked to see what the Monster would do a BlackRock.
Bob

[Wingman]

In danger of sounding like a nerd, a jet flying at Mach2 would be impossible to control precisley enough to touch down for the length of the test strip. And ejection is impossible above the speed of sound (not sure of the exact cutoff speed), the pilot would be torn apart by the air.