Formula 1 going down-hill....

[Andrew2001]

I'd just like to voice my view on F1 at the moment. Being an enormous fan of the sport in general since 1995, and getting more and more into it as the years have gone by. I seem to have hit a brick wall in recent months with regards to my enthusiasm of modern formula 1.
Its not the regulations, its not the technology, its nothing like that. There is one big problem, there is no action for victory of a Grand Prix. I believe Formula 1 reached its biggest high at the end of the 2000 season, where we saw a fantastic Mika VS Michael battle which could have gone down to the last race but what made it such an exciting year was the individual spectacles at each of the gp venues.
We saw carnage at Austria followed by a display by McLaren totally dominating. Then we saw Hockenheim, Imola was an absolute cliff-hangar, and Silverstone was brilliant. they were all great races. And Japan was just the most tense race!! I was disappointed (hugely!) that Mika's car let him down at the US GP but **** happens.

I have DVDs, cars, books, magazines, full season f1 reviews, about 15 f1 videos and a series of Can Am photos taken back in 1960s. I am really into this game, but in terms of each grand prix that is on tv, I am becoming less and less interested.
Now that I have finished wasting your precious reading time, Ill go straight to the point and the cause of F1 becoming less popular and less rated: FERRARI.
They are sucessful in this modern age, but its down to several factors which have never ever helped Williams, McLaren, Lotus or Brabham over the decades. Those teams I mentioned all employed similar driver combinations in that both were quick and both were allowed to race each other as hard as they deared until teh bitter end. Ferrari have never, and never will allow Michael SChuamcher to be beaten in a straight fight. He is only allowed to be "beaten" if the championship is over and they want to get the "spare" driver into 2nd overall. IF Ferrari didn't manipulate US, the fans with their dirty tactics then we would not be facing a very boring race as we do today. 2001 was the start of it, but 2002 is takes the cake. This year has been boring, Monaco was not too bad, only because there was actually a race for the lead.
I am not saying that two Ferraris dicing for the lead milesa head of everyone is boring, because IF thats what we were seeing I would NOT be complaining. FErrari suck, they are filthy players in this game and I cant wait til the rain is over, and the honours go back to where they belong, BRITAIN. Then we can go back to real racing, real excitment and not this utter **** we are watching at this present time.

In 1988 when McLaren were dominant wasn't boring, because Senna and Prost were at each others throats for the best part of their time together and the on-track racing was the best. It was the best of the best, the two masters of the time. I do not think that Barrichello is the second best in F1, but he is nevertheless capable of beating Schumacher or at least sitting in his wheeltracks for the entire length of a GP. Ohh just give Mika, Jacques or DC that F1-2002 with a bone-dry race track in the vicinity of 25-30degrees and Jean Tit wouldn't be able to employ team orders because Jacques would tell him to go **** Schuamchers ass.

Bunch of corporate fat cats = Ferrari.

[Armco Bender]

It will the same next year too,the Red cars will be further ahead...........Its a bit like watching Canterbury in the Super 12,when your a Chiefs fan...

[Down F0rce]

and what will the FIA do about it? NOTHING. they could not care less about racing, they want their money.i will watch the rest of this F1 season, and then thats it. ive had it with F1, iam an IRL fan now.

[Speedworx]

Ban Ferrai and then we will can get back to enjoying F1.

[NiceGuyEddie]

Originally posted by Down F0rce
and what will the FIA do about it? NOTHING. they could not care less about racing, they want their money.i will watch the rest of this F1 season, and then thats it. ive had it with F1, iam an IRL fan now.

And what would you like the FIA to do about it? Hate to break it to ya, but Ferrari isnt doing anything illegal. So its probably best that you've diverted your attention to IRL, where artificial race-influencing is very well accepted (which makes it a show, rather than a spo...uh..business)

[Damon]

That's a bit silly hakkinman. Your wanting F1 to be some sort of communist sect, equal oppotunities for all!!

It's been proven in the past that single team dominance does not have to lead to a dull season. The trouble this year is that the dominant team is being run by Jean Todt who is (as Nigel Roebuck likes to put it), a fastigous little man for whom results are all. The Ferrari heirarchy is too hell bent on results to care about racing and as a result, the fans. Thats the problem with F1 at the moment. The good thing is, as soon as Ferrari are no longer the dominant force, F1 will be as good as ever with proper racing at the top end of the sport.

On a personnal note I still love F1. Yes the championship was over early but I've been facinated by near misses for Williams and Mclaren, Montoya's phanominal car control and how the hell Ferrari have managed to get so far ahead. I still get excited the moments before each race simply in the hope that THIS could be the race in which the tide turns. It hasn't happened yet and it almost certainly won't this year but who cares there's always next year and the year after that!!

[f1manoz]

There's been dominant forces before - Lotus, Williams, McLaren - but at least the racing was good and there was something called OVERTAKING which many of the forum members would not know about because it is almost extinct from modern day F1.

[Ian Smith]

As another long time F1 Fan I can only agree that the whole circus is so high tech and we are nearing the time when drivers will become nothing more than mobile advertising boards.The cars will be controled from the Pit wall or the garage. Thank the lord there are other forms of racing,BTCC,Priavlidge G.T,Club sports. These all have 1 thing in common, PASSION I honestly belive the only thing F1 has a Passion for is Money.

[alfasud]

This is one of the silliest threads I've seen in a while. While I was quite angry about the way Ferrari manipulated the results at Austria, and turned the race into a farce, it needs to be remembered that sort of thing is only possible when you have a half rate opposition.

So rather than blaming Ferrari, and the even more ridiculous suggestions about banning them, maybe we should be fining or otherwise punishing McLaren-Mercedes, Williams-BMW and BAR-Honda for not providing a competitive opposition, and Jaguar should definitely receive some sort of punishment for farting around for most of the season and then only bothering to sort their car out when the season was almost over.

Minardi, Jordan and others have an excuse, but if FIAT money can do the job, then BMW, Mercedes, Honda and Ford don't have any excuse..... o.k. maybe don't actually fine them, but it's the job of the less competitive teams to catch up, not for Ferrari to be slowed down.

And we don't need to give anybody a Ferrari to do the job, a properly developed McLaren-BMW would probably do it.... or any decent chassis for the BMW engine, or decent engine for the McLaren chassis.

[Lee Janotta]

Ban Ferrari? Please...

I know it's said with the best intentions, but it's the totally wrong solution to a very real problem.

Neither will the laize-faire idea that "the other teams must catch up to Ferrari" work. The entire field is becoming more spread out, and races more processional. Without a radical revision of the rules package, domination by one team will continue to get even worse.

That's what the FIA is _supposed_ to be doing. Not politicing, not talking about "disciplinary action", not trying to enforce some elitist Concord Agreement, which does nothing but turn a sport into a corporate ****ing contest.

They're supposed to create a rule package that creates excitement... That makes drivers race each other on magnificent loops of pavement.

There's a reason they call it Formula 1. It's a formula, a set of rules which create the basis for the design and construction of cars, and the running of races. Get the parameters of that formula right, and the rest of the problems _will_ sort themselves out.

Revamp the technical package, getting rid of grooved tires and some downforce & widening the chassis, limit the teams spending habits and testing, lower the liscensing standards for circuits, allow year-old chassis sales... Heck, they could even allow teams to enter a third car in 3 races a year, to add even more uncertainty to the race weekends.

And that's what I think most of us are looking for: Uncertainty. We don't want to see a situation where the championship's wrapped up in France. It's not good for anyone, _especially_ not the fans. And without us, the whole thing would crumble.

Does anyone have e-mail addresses for anyplace inside the FIA's motorsport council, or Bernie or Max's offices? If we could get a letter-writing campaign going, it'd be a lot more effective than idle complaining on a message board.

[Sodemo]

Wake up morons! F1 died in 1997 with the introduction of the new regs!

Well actually it has been steadily getting worse over the years, it got worse in 1993 with the change in tyres and rear wing regs, and then again in 1997 with the stupid stupid stupid groove tyres and narrow track cars.

[Lee Janotta]

Actually, it was '98 that they introduced the grooved tires... And, yeah, that's sort of what I'm getting at.

[ttc]

I am not saying that two Ferraris dicing for the lead milesa head of everyone is boring, because IF thats what we were seeing I would NOT be complaining. FErrari suck, they are filthy players in this game and I cant wait til the rain is over, and the honours go back to where they belong, BRITAIN. Then we can go back to real racing, real excitment and not this utter **** we are watching at this present time.

I think this qualify as flamebait, no?

[Jukebox]

and the honours go back to where they belong, BRITAIN. Then we can go back to real racing, real excitment

Couldn't agree with you more ttc...ah well why bother?

[Super Tourer]

The answer is so simple, but why don't the FIA use it....

Success ballast has levelled the racing in other formula's, take the BTCC for example where it actually slowed the production class Honda civic too much, so it had to be reduced.

It may be unfair, but surely it's easier to slow down the fastest cars, rather than hope that the other's will be able to close the gap to them on merit.

Whether you like Ferrari or not, they've made a mockery of F1 this year. They've thrashed the oppostion, controlled 99% of the races and can even 'chosen' which driver they want to win. It's made BMW, Mercedes, McLaren, William's and the rest look like muppet's. Ferrari must be laughing their socks off to see Merc and BMW motors going pop in a desperate attempt to keep up, whilst they of course enjoy bullet proof reliability.

Even their most competitve rival's have got to find at least a second per lap just to live with Ferrari on race pace, and that's before they even think of beating them....

[Armco Bender]

The answer is so simple, but why don't the FIA use it....

Bring back the Ford DFV...when everyone was using them in the 70's the racing was great,sometimes cars even passed each other.

[Red]

Originally posted by Super Tourer
[...]but surely it's easier to slow down the fastest cars, rather than hope that the other's will be able to close the gap to them on merit.[...]

That's precisely the definition of communism and precisely the reason why it didn't work. "Force'em slow down instead forcing the others to run faster".

[Damon]

For once I fully agree with Red, punishment for success is no way to go.

[kmchow]

It may be considered unfair and bad for the sport, but just pile 100-150kg of penalty weight onto the Ferrari! I'm sure that would spice up the racing. Probably 20-30kg for the BMW can't hurt either.

[SL]

Not sure when F1 died, it seemed to have a lingering death starting in the late '80's. Today's cars are all the same limiting inovator's like Cooper, Chapman, Enzo etc.

No more are great drives from the back featured, the small rear engined but light car against the heavy big block car. the good chassis with a DFV against a bad chassis DFV, but huge power sliding tyres

If the rules had been as tight in 1950 we would still be seeing 250F's lookalikes today. So open up the regs, allow whatever, use restrictors, weight allowances 900kg or say 675kg to even the cars out a bit and then see what happens.

Oh sorry we do that already in Sportscars and have a great time, so please do not copy

Simon

[J.McClane]

Sorry aint read the whole thread, but i have been watchin' F1 since i was a nipper, around 20 years now(don't mean i have been a nipper for 20 years).
I personaly think F1 has been "below par" for ages.

F1 (for me) died on the 1st of May 1994.

They way to bring exitement back to F1 is easy really, first a new point system to make the championship a much closer affair, second limit the teams as to how much money they can spend (like the fantasy F1 games), they can spend the money on whatever they like (within the rules) this way will we see what is more important the car or driver.

[slicktoast]

Downhill is always FASTER than uphill.

[Andrew2001]

I do not think F1 died all that time ago. That is rediculous. In 1988 the racing was fantastic, but it has been great since up until at least 1997. It's the fact that there is no world championship to get excited about because Ferrari do not allow their drivers to race each other. That is what is making it boring.
Groove tyres, t/c, l/c, narrow track cars, raised front wings, completely flat chassis, rear wings that are far too restricted and rear tyres so small that they are barely rear tyres at all: have all played their parts in transforming F1 cars into the singing, high revving all dancing racers to the todays computer-controlled-on-rails machines.

Ferrari have made a mockery of F1, hence why Schumaher's statistics/Ferraris statistics mean not even a pinch of salt. What was this "Flexing bodywork" that I seem to have heard about back at the time of Imola? Could it be that Ferrari have found a loop hole in the regs and thats how they have got THIS much of an advantage? The F12002 is not any better than the other cars, its not any more powerful, or anything, its aero package isn't much better than Newey's at McLaren. But what that car is, is RELIABLE, predictable, and its running like a gem. They have extracted the MAXIMUM from it, something which McLaren haven't come close to doing this year. And thats the difference.

IRL is ****, and it is gonna suck when all the Champ Car teams move over to it next year.
I can see the same thing happening in F1, Bernie has bought 30% of Ferrari, hint hint. Ferrari, Minardi and a Sauber break-away? With all the other teams forming a british based series? I can see it happening in the very near future.
Look waht happend to the aussie League when it broke up into 2, it sank without a trace, look at IRL and Champ Cars, what a ****ing joke.

[Valve Bounce]

Congratulations Andrew, you have just made my life even more miserable.

Valve

[Inigo Montoya]

Originally posted by Andrew2001
FErrari suck, they are filthy players in this game and I cant wait til the rain is over, and the honours go back to where they belong, BRITAIN. Then we can go back to real racing, real excitment and not this utter **** we are watching at this present time.

Wow, some real intelligent points in there... I especially like the part about honours in F1 belonging in Britain. Really well thought out post...