Keep off the grass!

[midgetman]

Well it's official! In the latest edition of the MSA mag is the new rule Q.14.4.2 and I paraphrase slightly:

"Drivers may not leave the track without a justifiable reason. For avoidance of doubt:

a) The white lines defining the track edge are part of the track
b) A driver will be judged to have left the track if any wheel either goes beyond the outer edge of any kerb or goes beyond the white line where there is no kerb

"14.5
Breaches of 14.4.2 may be reported and/determined only by
a) A duly appointed judge of fact
b) Senior officials through the use of suitable equipment under the control of the organisers

"To clarify track limits and incorporating much of the FIA revised wording."


Presumably this means CCTV evidence is acceptable, and maybe AFTER the race. What it doesn't say in what I'm reading is what the sanction will be. If it's "just" a B/W flag it's not going to make much difference to people who take the occasional kerb. It may be different for repeat offenders. 2014 will be interesting!

[deley]

I imagine the sanctions will be the same as today using the rising scale of B/W, time penalty, drive through etc in racing and loss of lap times in qualy.

[Robyn Slater]

Originally Posted by deley

I imagine the sanctions will be the same as today using the rising scale of B/W, time penalty, drive through etc in racing and loss of lap times in qualy.

Or licence endorsed, then 1/2hr in which to lodge an appeal.

If it wasn't so serious it would be funny!!

[MGDavid]

wonder what 'justifiable reason' means? if it doesn't include 'to avoid possible contact' then it'll be like banger racing. See an increase in use of in-car cameras maybe.

[JohnD]

F1 is a long way from Club sport, buth there were a couple of recent incidents where it was said that 'all four wheels over the white line' was 'off the track'. This is down to 14.5 b/, and the new reg is a BIG change, as a comparision with the original wording shows:
Q 14.5 a/ The white lines defining the track are considerd to be part of the track, but the kerbs are not.
Q 14.5 b/ A driver will be judged to have left the track if no part of the car remains in contact with the track.

Thus riding the kerbs will still be legal, but stray over the edge, even by a fraction, and you have "left the track". Some people will have to modify their technique, a lot!

John

[JohnD]

I'm watching practise from Spa and yes, it's practice, they will be pushing themselves and the cars as far as posisble, but there is so much use of the kerbs, which will be specificly NOT part of the track, as a freshly painted white line makes clear. Eua Rouge, Les Combes, Stavelot, they are all using the exit, and sometimes entry kerbs, consistently and extensively. Be intersting to compare with the race, to see if they are modifying this technique yet, but I can't watch as I'll be racing!

JOhn

[Mike Bell]

The new rule comes in for 2014.......

[bravo]

Originally Posted by JohnD

I'm watching practise from Spa and yes, it's practice, they will be pushing themselves and the cars as far as posisble, but there is so much use of the kerbs, which will be specificly NOT part of the track, as a freshly painted white line makes clear. Eua Rouge, Les Combes, Stavelot, they are all using the exit, and sometimes entry kerbs, consistently and extensively. Be intersting to compare with the race, to see if they are modifying this technique yet, but I can't watch as I'll be racing!

JOhn

You can use the kerbs, but can't take a wheel beyond the back of the kerb. Where there is no kerb - you can't go outside the white lines.

[terence]

One point to remember is that the white line divides the track from the kerbing
Dont think the MSA [as usual!] thought out the wording very well!

[JohnD]

Quotes from the supplementtary regs for yesterday's Donington meeting. It was CSCC organising, but no blame to them.

9. Track behaviour. "At least two wheels must remain on the track at all times."

And you are so right about the MSA's inability to write clear English. The new wording they have approved in Section F Emergency and Medical Services (In which I have a professional interest) includes Para 1.1 "Where appropriate, [redundant comma, but let it pass] test certificates and time expired consumables at to be 'in-date'."

They mean "time-limited" or "expiry date-limited". A product that is already "time expired" cannot be "in-date". As I have pointed out to the Mediclal Committee.

John

[terence]

I sometimes wonder if the wording is put together by the same people who write the instructions you get with a flat pack unit from MFI.

[Simon S]

One has to ask what this is all about?

(I am assuming that a particularly vocal cct owner has been on their case?)

either way, it's a joke, once again, the club racer get's the but end of this cr4p and I bet BTCC/GT/etc. get exempt from it all..

I would love to understand how MSA come up with this stuff without ever actually genuinely consulting with PAYING licence holders?

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by Simon S

I would love to understand how MSA come up with this stuff without ever actually genuinely consulting with PAYING licence holders?

They did consult but probably ignored the results.

[deley]

if it helps..... http://www.msauk.org/uploadedfiles/m...ack_limits.pdf

[Adam43]

Just seen that in Marshals too. Cool, thanks for the link. No problem.

[BertMk2]

There are going to be a lot of penalties for exceeding the track limits at Brands then - at Paddock and Graham Hill in particular. At Paddock you'll often see cars with both wheels over the kerb so the whole car is on the green bit. Is this rule applied across the board or can championships override this ruling in their own ruleset?

[The SpeCTator]

At Paddock Bend it was MSV that put in the green concrete.

If you don't want people to put their wheels on to it, then just go, track, kerbs, gravel!

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

There are going to be a lot of penalties for exceeding the track limits at Brands then - at Paddock and Graham Hill in particular. At Paddock you'll often see cars with both wheels over the kerb so the whole car is on the green bit. Is this rule applied across the board or can championships override this ruling in their own ruleset?

Bear in mind that the new rules are really nothing more than a redefinition & tightening up of the rules which have been in force for a couple of years.

The whole car on the green bit at Paddock would, under the old rules, have been called in as exceeding track limits for "four wheels off" as it would have been over the white line. This year one wheel over the edge of the kerb will be called in as exceeding track limits.

At the meeting I did at Brands last year quite a few drivers were reported as having exceeded track limits - one French Legends driver seven times!

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by Dave Brand

The whole car on the green bit at Paddock would, under the old rules, have been called in as exceeding track limits for "four wheels off" as it would have been over the white line. This year one wheel over the edge of the kerb will be called in as exceeding track limits.

I just think that the rule hasn't really been enforced much in the past although I seem to remember it being applied a bit more at Brands last year - plenty of driving standards flags and quite a few penalties, mostly for offences at Graham Hill I think. Running on the green bit at Paddock is commonplace for just about every major series that goes to Brands, not so much the clubbies - they're not taking so many risks (they can't afford the consequences!). I can see it being top of the list in driver briefings (but do drivers listen? ). The first BTCC meeting could be interesting!

[JohnD]

They were enforcing it at Croft a few years ago, at Bobbies, the chicane after Tower. Though it was more, "We've stuck some plastic markers in the kerbs, but you buggers keep smashing them. And the circuit charges the Club, so the marshals will report you if you even touch them!"
John