MRL/JDClassics Series 2013?

[chunterer]

Having looked at the calendar, it appears there will be a couple less outings for this series with 4 meetings; Donington Classic, Brands. Superprix, Spa (new) and Portugal.

Looks as though the new Supertourer series has 'replaced' JDC at the Oulton Gold Cup and no return to the MGCC festival.

Is this simply a regroup by MRL to allow more of the rumoured cars to be readied for the following season?

Does anyone know what might be coming out to play this year yet?

[Peter Mallett]

I can only surmise that the series is being put "on hold" while cars are bought/restored. There should be at least four Group A rovers available, with two more in rebuild/restoration. As last year the Pochciol Jaguar and Capris should be out. Of course the JDC Jaguar and the newly acquired Patrick Motorsport Rover will no doubt make appearances.

Sadly I can't do any racing this year as my work schedule is in the way. But Hopefully next year the new acquisition will make its debut.

Not only the new HSCC initiative, but the new Peter Auto series will also be a factor.

IMO we appear to have gone from famine to feast with no coherent strategy to get the right cars out at the right meetings. The HSCC will be a supertourer fest, leaving those other cars to wonder why they entered. Don't forget, the draw was the Classic. However this year there will be lower key events, will they draw the entries? By the time we all realise (and no disrespect to the HSCC and the organisers) those of us with Group 1/2 and A cars will have nowhere to race. Or at least nowhere worth racing.

[Mike Bell]

James, to correct you- confirmed races are at Donington Festival in May, Brands GP circuit with Masters in June, and Portimao in October. You must be thinking about the Peter Auto Spa Classic which is same weekend as Brands Masters meeting.

IMHO There are several factors to consider here.

Last year JD Classics supported their series by bringing one or two of the cars they own out to play, usually with high profile drivers. The cars are very expensive to run and at least one was was damaged, adding to expense.

During the year they were appointed by Jaguar Cars to take over the running of the Heritage fleet. This put enormous strain on resources, hence none of 'JDC' cars racing at Portimao.

MRL are outside their comfort zone running cars as modern as 1970s / 1980s, with most of their loyal customers being seriously into 50s cars or Pre-War. I believe only one of their regulars is having a GpA car prepared, and he raced them in period.

The head man at MRL took on running AMOCR last season, increasing their workload and dividing human resources.

Cars? The SuperTourer series with HSCC will eventually lose earlier Gp2 and GpA entries as they have done a deal with Dunlop for tyre supply. Next year compulsory to use Dunlop, which won't suit earlier Avon users. Deal is to get Dunlop to make tyres for cars that at moment can't get correct size. Also suggestion that the series may get to support BTCC somewhere in 2014.....

For MRL and Masters 70 Celebration the question of FIA HTPs also needs to be addressed. If they both insisted on them it would allow a more even playing field. Also tyres need to be period correct construction and tread pattern. It is a bit galling after struggling through a wet race on period crossply wet pattern Avons to find winner on modern patterned radials....

I fear the JDCC is stalled. I won't be out in it this season, for some reasons above and also as have a full (expensive) season driving elsewhere. If Peter Auto get support for the Spa event and police the entry my money is on them to try another event. They are mainland Europe based, which will help with entries from that side of the water and run high profile meetings.

[chunterer]

I didn't realise there were tyre issues in the mix here as well as what appears to be unnecessarily competing series.

So will Ken continue to act as series manager as he is enthusiastic about having somewhere decent for the earlier Group A cars to run safely (as a lot of people are I know) or will Ken and his customers look to support another series?

One can only hope as Peter and mike have alluded to that Group 1 and A owners realise they need their own place to play and leave the M3, Cosworths and ST's to their own series where those later cars quite rightly get their own attention and support?

[Al Weyman]

Insisting on original cars with original specs they were always going to be on a hiding for nothing IMHO when Escorts change hands for £75k.

[Peter Mallett]

Al,

As I said there are at least seven (forgot the Nigel G car) genuine Group A Rovers. Four of which are race ready and three being prepped/restored. There is a genuine XJ12. An XJS and then there's at least one genuine Group A Metro that is being restored. I also believe there is a GpA Golf being returned to the tracks. In Group 1 there's an ex works Dolly and the Patrick Motorsport Rover SD1, mine will be ready next year. On top of that, at the moment slightly modified cars such as my Capri and the Pochciol cars (three of them) can run with MRL.

There are loads of genuine Group 2 BMWs at least two Capris and of course, lest we forget, there is the Lairy Canary and three (that I know of) Escort twinks. Also there is that NSU. With that list we haven't even scratched the surface of cars that run in the Youngtimer that are also genuine Group 1B/2 cars. They are all out there running (exceptions being those mentioned above), the issue is to get them all together in one place.

And that last point is where I think the organisers need to bang heads because if those of us in Gp1B machinery are just making up the grid due to the Cossies, M3s and STs as it would be in the HSCC series, then it really isn't worth getting out of bed. Thus MRL/JDC really needs to get its act together.

[Mike Bell]

Stalled, not broken, hopefully. There is no reason why the JDCC, or another name if they stopped supporting it, can't still be the UK home for Gp1, Gp2 and earler GpA cars. I can only imagine how much it costs to run something like an XJS so still believe smaller cars need to be encouraged.

I think the series for later GpA and Tourers will go it's own way without earlier stuff which is fair enough. The tyre manufacturer tie-up makes sense as they need rubber than isn't available for some cars, and if they get chance to support BTCC somewhere, why not.

Going back to tyres, I know from what Ant has said previously, that Avon slicks are not available for some Gp1 cars? It would be good if that could be sorted. Looking at the regs for the 'alternative' May event at Spa the tyre issue if very precisely worded, and finishes with- 'Tyres with modern patterns (post 1984) are forbidden'. This is great for Gp2 and GpA cars but wouldn't be for Gp1 where only alternative to slicks is modern pattern Yoko or Toyo.

[Simon Hadfield]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

Stalled, not broken, hopefully. There is no reason why the JDCC, or another name if they stopped supporting it, can't still be the UK home for Gp1, Gp2 and earler GpA cars. I can only imagine how much it costs to run something like an XJS so still believe smaller cars need to be encouraged.

I think the series for later GpA and Tourers will go it's own way without earlier stuff which is fair enough. The tyre manufacturer tie-up makes sense as they need rubber than isn't available for some cars, and if they get chance to support BTCC somewhere, why not.

Going back to tyres, I know from what Ant has said previously, that Avon slicks are not available for some Gp1 cars? It would be good if that could be sorted. Looking at the regs for the 'alternative' May event at Spa the tyre issue if very precisely worded, and finishes with- 'Tyres with modern patterns (post 1984) are forbidden'. This is great for Gp2 and GpA cars but wouldn't be for Gp1 where only alternative to slicks is modern pattern Yoko or Toyo.

This area will always struggle to get a cohesive, all encompassing championship, the cars, engines, suspension, brakes, the performance are all so disparate that one size simply won't fit all. Even the way the rules were enforced country to country throughout Europe differed. As we seem to have lost the will to run cars that rather nice, simply for the joy of running them, the need to have the "winning car" will always distort this format - which ever car/group that gives that possibility will always rise to the top to the detriment of the rest of the classes.

[Al Weyman]

My point is of course the genuine cars are out there but the question is howmany are prepared to risk priceless unibodied race cars on the track. I came across this years ago when someone I knew renovated CSL with the intention to race it then realised it was to valuble to risk and that was years ago

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by Simon Hadfield

This area will always struggle to get a cohesive, all encompassing championship, the cars, engines, suspension, brakes, the performance are all so disparate that one size simply won't fit all. Even the way the rules were enforced country to country throughout Europe differed. As we seem to have lost the will to run cars that rather nice, simply for the joy of running them, the need to have the "winning car" will always distort this format - which ever car/group that gives that possibility will always rise to the top to the detriment of the rest of the classes.

Agreed Simon, but there is a point that running those nice cars in the relevant period events will at least come close to the "utopia". I don't decry the post 86 GpA cars nor indeed the Supertourers but imo these were cars built beyond the ethos of the original regs and as such don't fit with the pre 1986 cars.

So I expect the series' to be able to split into pre 1986 and post 1986.

That said I hope the JDC/MRL series does survive because it would be a shame to have nowhere to run my latest acquisition (once restored), which is a genuine Gp1B car. Of course it will also fit with Bernie's V8s and the 360MRC.

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by Simon Hadfield

As we seem to have lost the will to run cars that rather nice, simply for the joy of running them, the need to have the "winning car" will always distort this format - which ever car/group that gives that possibility will always rise to the top to the detriment of the rest of the classes.

A great shame and probably what will eventually stop me from racing. I fear that even the humble Escort, that with enough money spent and in right hands can win races, will put others off. But you can't stop people from wanting to be competitive, just that some want to be more competitive than others and have the funds to do so.

The Spa Classic event will see Gp2 & GpA cars in same races as over 2litre Pre '66 AppK, so a 'race within a race'. Will be interesting to see if that works.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Agreed Simon, but there is a point that running those nice cars in the relevant period events will at least come close to the "utopia". I don't decry the post 86 GpA cars nor indeed the Supertourers but imo these were cars built beyond the ethos of the original regs and as such don't fit with the pre 1986 cars.

So I expect the series' to be able to split into pre 1986 and post 1986.

That said I hope the JDC/MRL series does survive because it would be a shame to have nowhere to run my latest acquisition (once restored), which is a genuine Gp1B car. Of course it will also fit with Bernie's V8s and the 360MRC.

This is what should be happening already, but as you say I am sure it will happen once a few people realise the logic..

Fear not Peter! I reckon that if we really needed to I am sure we can get a few Grp 1/2/A enthusiasts together to set something up so that your Rover and the other cars have somewhere to play but I might be jumping the gun a tad there!!

We need to stick with this as the cars are starting to surface/re-surface after all the positive support and feedback in the last 12-18 months.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by chunterer

We need to stick with this as the cars are starting to surface/re-surface after all the positive support and feedback in the last 12-18 months.

This is the point.

[Al Weyman]

So would it be so terrible if these machines were raced more as a gentlemans demonstration race like the GT's race in the States and much deridded overhere, does every race here have to be manic balls out Goodwood style? I don't think it would be as at least the cars will be seen and heard and may well survive and that may tempt the owners of some of these expensive bits of tin back out.

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

So would it be so terrible if these machines were raced more as a gentlemans demonstration race like the GT's race in the States and much deridded overhere, does every race here have to be manic balls out Goodwood style? I don't think it would be as at least the cars will be seen and heard and may well survive and that may tempt the owners of some of these expensive bits of tin back out.

Al, I am not disagreeing with your point, but how do you stop people wanting to win? There are those for whom the idea of racing is to finish as near to front as possible. To have events such as you describe I think you would have to ban any replica / non period car. This is how they work down under. But even then, there will be those prepared to spend more money 'tweaking' a car with winning potential to boost their ego or whatever.

BTW thought Goody was supposed to be based on the ethos of 'Gentlemans demonstration racing'...

As usual, all IMHO.........

[Alex E]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

So would it be so terrible if these machines were raced more as a gentlemans demonstration race like the GT's race in the States and much deridded overhere, does every race here have to be manic balls out Goodwood style? I don't think it would be as at least the cars will be seen and heard and may well survive and that may tempt the owners of some of these expensive bits of tin back out.

Al, it`s the Gentlemen that like to win most.....

[Al Weyman]

Well they control it in America presumably by not inviting the balls out brigade back. I don't think any real car enthusiast gets any pleasure out of seeing a fine old rare car destroyed on the track, if the rules were laid out and adhered to I'm sure it would be possible. Mike made a point a while ago about the Alan Mann Twink Escort that sold for £75k, that it wouldnt even be competitive today, well to me that sums it all up as there are plenty that would like to see that iconic machine take to the tracks but I doubt the owner will risk his investment against a load of 'period' cars going 5 or 6 seconds a lap quicker than they did and piloted like a modern day BTCC driver infront of the TV camaras in this series or any other. The majority of accidents as I see it happen from a chasing car diving up the inside under braking, do something about that and I think you would have the basis for a gentle and reasonably exciting 'race' even if it was more demo. We did this with Clarkson video as the producer warned us if he was taken out that would be it, game over for all of us, we still had a damned good race and qually as you can see from my video but with just a tad extra caution and it was one of the best sessions I have taken part in.

[Mike Bell]

I'm not sure if it will influence the hoped for appearance of a GpA Metro Turbo, now back with its original 1984 TT Driver, but it is reported in Autosport this week that the same gent has also acquired a 1998 Peugeot 406 for the (HSCC run) Touring Car Trophy.

[Al Weyman]

Would that be the one run by Andrew McKenzie the privateer?

[Peter Mallett]

Nope.

[morninggents]

Would the driver of the Peugeot 406 have the same initials as me (not MG)?

[Peter Mallett]

I suspect you are correct Patr..... er Peter.

[chunterer]

Nice story that this is I hope that the Metro doesn't now get mothballed, the MRL Group A ranks need it...

[JDog]

We have classes for the earlier car's, we arent out to poach any from other series. We don't have any date clashes with MRL, just giving people a bit of choice thats all!

[Mike Bell]

Latest from MRL for those that haven't seen it-

HTCC – a new name for the JD Classics Challenge
First, we are excited to announce that the JD Classics Challenge is very much set to continue in 2013 and beyond, and is henceforth to be called the HTCC (Historic Touring Car Challenge). The series will continue to run exactly as it has for the past two years – the only change is to the title. The HTCC will continue to enjoy the vital support of JD Classics, both as sponsor and as entrant; and alongside the JD Classics entries, we are expecting to see some very interesting and historic new additions to the grid this season – even from as far afield as Australia!

Entry forms and regulations for the HTCC are now available and can be downloaded here. Despite the new FIA rules, we will be running a full season of racing, kicking off with a 45-minute race at the Donington Historic Festival in early May – this event will be bigger than ever this year and has really cemented its place as the season-opening meeting. We will then be returning to the Masters Festival at Brands Hatch at the end of May, this year with two 40-minute double-headers: one race on the Indy Circuit and one on the full Grand Prix Circuit.

In a new innovation, we have engineered the opportunity to race at Spa in September. Since the new FIA rules stipulate that we can only run one official overseas event, we will not officially be running the Spa race ourselves, but all HTCC cars are ‘invited’ to enter Barry Sidery-Smith’s one-hour grid at the Six Hours meeting. Entries will be made to Barry directly, but we will co-ordinate all HTCC cars entering this race.

Finally, we will be returning to the Algarve Classic Festival in southern Portugal in mid-October, which allows us to play on one of the most magnificent circuits in Europe, with an entry fee that includes a hotel room – giving us terrific hospitality in a fabulous location. If you haven’t tried this event then you really must put it in your calendar.