Too old? Too careful? Time to retire??

MrSal · 2 Jun 2003, 19:46 (Ref:618290)

This may seem like a strange time for this post after he qualified second and ran in the top 6 all race, but is it time for Rusty Wallace to call it a day at the end of the season?
I just don't see the risk taking any more in search of victory. Yes, I see reasonable consistency, top 10's in races and in the points standings but no wins for ages. He is consistently outpaced by his team mate Newman both in qualifying and the race.
Sorry Rusty. I like you, your morals and fair racing,and admire what you have done in your career but its time to hang up your helmet.

Emfa · 2 Jun 2003, 20:23 (Ref:618335)

If you ask Rusty to hang it up, shouldn't you ask Terry Labonte as well? Or, if they can still make the field, why stop them from doing what they're good at and enjoy?

Trebor · 2 Jun 2003, 20:33 (Ref:618343)

Rusty will has his final season in 2005.
This is published a few weeks ago that 2005 will be his last season in NASCAR.

MrSal · 2 Jun 2003, 21:07 (Ref:618386)

Quote:

Originally posted by Emfa
If you ask Rusty to hang it up, shouldn't you ask Terry Labonte as well? Or, if they can still make the field, why stop them from doing what they're good at and enjoy?

I agree. Terry Labonte possibly. Bill Elliott definitely. Kyle Petty definitely. The only problem with my theory s the atrocious displays of the majority of this years rookies. Spague, Biffle and Mears neither threaten to win races or finish then either.

With the lack of entrants you have to be completely hopeless if you fail to qualify so everyone should make the field.

Emfa · 2 Jun 2003, 21:15 (Ref:618399)

I see what you're saying about the rookies - certainly no-one inspiring out there this year. I've noticed that Derrick Cope has failed to qualify a few times recently...

2005 sounds like it would probably be good timing for Rusty.

muggle not · 2 Jun 2003, 22:26 (Ref:618485)

Quote:

Originally posted by Emfa
If you ask Rusty to hang it up, shouldn't you ask Terry Labonte as well? Or, if they can still make the field, why stop them from doing what they're good at and enjoy?

There are 43 cars that usually are in a race and Rusty is consistently in the top 10 almost every race and in the point standings. Actually, he is still in the chase for the championship this year. I believe that his wins will come. That said, he has indicated that 2005 will be his last year.

Joe Fan · 3 Jun 2003, 01:18 (Ref:618632)

Really, the old guard (Mark Martin, Dale Jarrett, Rusty Wallace, Terry Labonte and Bill Elliott) are starting to fade away a bit, some more than others. This sport is really becoming a young man's sport.

muggle not · 3 Jun 2003, 02:35 (Ref:618672)

Naw, I dont believe that it is becoming a young man's sport. Just a normal changing of the guard that happens every so often. Taking a look at the top 15 in points show that quite a few of the old guard are still out performing most of the field.

1 -- Matt Kenseth
2 -- Dale Earnhardt Jr.
3 -- Jeff Gordon
4 -- Bobby Labonte
5 -- Kurt Busch
6 -- Michael Waltrip
7 -- Jimmie Johnson
8 -- Rusty Wallace
9 -- Kevin Harvick
10 - Robby Gordon
11 - Sterling Marlin
12 - Ricky Craven
13 - Joe Nemechek
14 - Jeff Burton
15 - Mark Martin

rustyfan · 3 Jun 2003, 10:35 (Ref:618981)

Quote:

Originally posted by MrSal
I agree. Terry Labonte possibly. Bill Elliott definitely. Kyle Petty definitely.

In Elliott's case, you're telling me winning the Brickyard 400 (last year) - the second-largest event on the calender - is a sign of someone being washed-out and in need of retirement? Not sure if I can agree to that..

Terry Labonte has shown a slight improvement in form this season, but it's still a long time since he won a race. He has vaguely talked about retirement in the past, and this season could be a make-or-break year when it comes to that decision.

As for Petty, I agree, and I think his driving is hurt by mainly two things; the death of Adam (I think it still affects him) and running the whole Petty racing operation (owner/drivers rarely find success).

Jack Man · 3 Jun 2003, 11:07 (Ref:619017)

Do you think Ryan Newman would have won Dover if Rusty hadn't showed him where to run? I think not. These so called old guys have alot of experiance that these younger drivers beg to know. There's not one young driver that doesn't ask the advice of there older competitors.

muggle not · 3 Jun 2003, 13:54 (Ref:619187)

Quote:

Originally posted by David A Brown
Do you think Ryan Newman would have won Dover if Rusty hadn't showed him where to run? I think not. These so called old guys have alot of experiance that these younger drivers beg to know. There's not one young driver that doesn't ask the advice of there older competitors.

There are some that dont ask for advice from the experienced drivers, but then again, those are the ones that arent very smart to start with.

MrSal · 3 Jun 2003, 17:24 (Ref:619425)

Quote:

Originally posted by David A Brown
Do you think Ryan Newman would have won Dover if Rusty hadn't showed him where to run? I think not. These so called old guys have alot of experiance that these younger drivers beg to know. There's not one young driver that doesn't ask the advice of there older competitors.

Yes. I think he would have won if Wallace wasn't his team mate. I think Newman has the raw pace to win any race where his car is competitive.
What i may agree with is that Newman may use Wallace's knowledge of settings to get decent handling out of the car.This is the area in which experience is a real advantage.

Fish_Flake · 4 Jun 2003, 01:31 (Ref:619917)

I think the old guard will still be competitive for the next few years, at least. I say that because after several consecutive years where several very quick young drivers entered the series and made an immediate impact, there are very few left waiting in the wings. I see Kurt Busch's little brother Kyle, who was rising so fast that NASCAR instituted a rule to specifically keep him from joining the series at before turning 18 and therefore sparking controversy over tobacco sponsorship, but that's about it. The Busch series standings show mostly failed Cup drivers at the top of the standings (only three drivers under 30 in the top 10 in points, and only Scott Wimmer [3rd in '02, currently 12th] has struck me as a future star out of the current Busch regulars), meanwhile the Craftsman Truck series suffers from the same problem (although Travis Kvapil, Brendan Gaughan, Jason Leffler, and Jon Wood might prove me wrong). Simply put, the older NASCAR drivers are still going to be around for a while, because all the mediocre older drivers (Todd Bodine, Ron Hornaday, Bobby Hamilton, Ted Musqrave, among others) have already been demoted to the lesser ranks in favor of those younger and faster, and the either the senior drivers are too good, or the junior drivers are not good enough.

24thunder · 4 Jun 2003, 15:29 (Ref:620699)

Quote:

Originally posted by rustyfan
In Elliott's case, you're telling me winning the Brickyard 400 (last year) - the second-largest event on the calender - is a sign of someone being washed-out and in need of retirement? Not sure if I can agree to that..

Also,Bill Elliott won the Pocono event the week before the Brickyard 400,so it was back-to-back wins for the #9 team last year,far from washed up IMO!
IMO,Rusty Wallace is also far from washed up,I do hope that He gets a victory soon to end that winless streak,but it's not the longest winless streak among active drivers by any means,Terry Labonte's streak is longer,not to mention Kyle Petty's & etc.
As far as the young guns performing so well,I believe that a lot of this can be contributed to the harder tire compounds used by Goodyear the last couple of years,bring back a softer tire compound & IMO We would see the veteran drivers with way more experience at preserving tires during long green flag runs resume Their winning ways more often,JMO!

muggle not · 4 Jun 2003, 16:19 (Ref:620743)

Rusty is my pick this week. He finally gets his long awaited win. Actually, he is pretty much on a roll along with Bobby Labonte.

Quadrifoglio · 4 Jun 2003, 19:10 (Ref:620950)

The mix of experienced veterans, drivers in their prime and young chargers is making this season a classic I think. I dont see any way of predicting who will win the winston cup outright at this stage but if pushed I would have to say it will come down to Jeff Gordon or Bobby Labonte. Both are in their prime, are past winners and have fantastic racecraft which is different to the outright speed shown by guys like Busch and Earnhardt. Only thing I know is I am not going to miss a second of the action between now and Homestead in November.

Lee Janotta · 11 Jun 2003, 02:27 (Ref:627774)

Elliot's performance has been sporadic for the better part of a decade now... Brilliant on a couple of weekends a year, but lost in the wilderness most. I would have said he should have retired quite a while ago, but if he still wants to stick around, and can still have a couple of top-threes every year, so be it.

Terry Labonte... Hang it up, man...

Rusty lost his streak of one win a year. That's the only thing that's changed. He's gone an awful long time without being a championship contender, but he's still a threat on any given Sunday.

Mark Martin's going to have to hang it up pretty soon just because of age, not because of a lack of pace.

These things happen in every form of racing... One dominant generation retires, and another steps up to replace them. NASCAR's gone through it before, and they'll go through it again. Actually, this is the fourth distinct generation of NASCAR drivers that we've been seeing appear in the last couple seasons. That's a lot fewer changes than F1 has gone through, where the shelf life of even the very best drivers is less than 15 years. And Indycars (CART and IRL both) are resembling F1 more and more in terms of driver turnover. Unless you've got a famous family name and you're being paid loads of money to hang around past your sell-by date (Little Al, Mikey).

Fish_Flake · 11 Jun 2003, 03:05 (Ref:627785)

Like I said before, the peak age of NASCAR drivers' competitiveness is 47. That is generally the age that most great drivers either retire, win their last race, or see a dramatic dropoff in results. The only drivers who have been able to break this trend are Bobby Allison, Harry Gant, and Dale Earnhardt. Bill Elliott is 47; Ricky Rudd, Terry Labonte, Dale Jarrett, and Rusty Wallace are all 46. Jimmy Spencer and Mike Skinner are also 46, but they were never great drivers. Sterling Marlin is 45, and Mark Martin is 44. It's strange that Martin, despite looking like an old man, is the youngest of the old veterans.

Lee Janotta · 11 Jun 2003, 03:17 (Ref:627792)

Martin's only 44? Cripes, the guy looks like he's ready for social security.

MrSal · 11 Jun 2003, 09:04 (Ref:627959)

These things happen in every form of racing... One dominant generation retires, and another steps up to replace them. NASCAR's gone through it before, and they'll go through it again. Actually, this is the fourth distinct generation of NASCAR drivers that we've been seeing appear in the last couple seasons. That's a lot fewer changes than F1 has gone through, where the shelf life of even the very best drivers is less than 15 years. And Indycars (CART and IRL both) are resembling F1 more and more in terms of driver turnover. [/B][/QUOTE]

I agree with this. I suspect that there is a different fitness required for F1 than NASCAR. F1 drivers have to be really thin and small to actually fit in the cars and a more explosive cardiovascular fitness would be needed. Also the battering the head and neck receive in F1 is vastly greater because they aren't covered by a car roof like they are in NASCAR. F1 cars are a lot more nervous to drive so reactions and reflexes are critical.
NASCAR drivers would appear to require greater strength around the shoulders due to the cars being far heavier to steer and because of the longer race distances. Drivers with the physique of a Jimmy Spencer(extreme case) and Ryan Newman could never drive an F1 car.

F1 fitness(explosiveness,cardiovascular and quick reflexes)are the things that you lose with age. This age seems to be around the 35 mark. Endurance fitness and strength required for NASCAR will be lost less quickly with age but will eventually effect a driver's speed. It would seem to be that this age is between 45 and 50.

Lee Janotta · 11 Jun 2003, 12:43 (Ref:628207)

A lot of that seems true. Nigel Mansell won his last Grand Prix at the age of 41, though, and was never particularly fit... Built rather more like a NASCAR driver, in fact. Many say his form dropped off dramatically the year after, but neither Hakkinen nor Blundell was able to do a thing that year with one of the most awful McLaren chassis ever.

Mario Andretti and Emerson Fittipaldi were competitive into their late '40s. That was a decade ago, though...

If there's anything that's pushing older drivers out more rapidly these days, it's the surplus of very good young drivers being produced, both out of USAC/ASA here, and in the European feeder formulas. One could even say drivers are being over-produced, and you could make a good case for that.

As far as open-wheel cars being harder, easier, or whatever... Well, Vasser and Christian Fittipaldi are hopeless in NASCAR, but they weren't doing that great in CART either lately. Kurt Busch, on the other hand, suprised a lot of people with his CART test during the spring (only 4 seconds off the fastest lap!).

http://www.crash.net/news_detail.asp...9&language_id=

And Kurt's a decent-sized guy without much road-racing experience.

Where am I going with this? No clue... It's up to the driver, his team, and the sponsors. Everything else is just the realm of pundits.

Emfa · 11 Jun 2003, 14:25 (Ref:628318)

Quote:

Originally posted by Lee Janotta
...
Where am I going with this? No clue... It's up to the driver, his team, and the sponsors. Everything else is just the realm of pundits.

That's just the thing, isn't it. If they're still competitive and not a danger to themselves or anyone else then who are we to say that they should stop? Witness Paul Newman's drive at Lime Rock last month!

MrSal · 28 Aug 2003, 17:15 (Ref:702015)

I've left this one for a while but I haven't seen anything to suggest that the veterans(Wallace, Elliott, Labonte T and Petty are anything other than midfield runners in the present competitive nascar series.

It looks like nascar is becoming a young man's sport to me. Kenseth, Dale jr, Busch and Newman are consistently the quickest drivers and the relatively young, but still experienced Labonte B and Jeff Gordon showing good race craft to keep up with them.

muggle not · 1 Sep 2003, 00:33 (Ref:704402)

Quote:

Originally posted by MrSal
I've left this one for a while but I haven't seen anything to suggest that the veterans(Wallace, Elliott, Labonte T and Petty are anything other than midfield runners in the present competitive nascar series.

It looks like nascar is becoming a young man's sport to me. Kenseth, Dale jr, Busch and Newman are consistently the quickest drivers and the relatively young, but still experienced Labonte B and Jeff Gordon showing good race craft to keep up with them.

Actually, most Nascar fans have recognized that Terry Labonte has been having some good runs lately. Today's win at Darlington kind of capped it off. Terry drove the race like the experienced driver he is and on one of the toughest tracks in Winston Cup.

1 Sep 2003, 04:08 (Ref:704445)

very happy ro see Terry win the last labor day Southern 500.take that young guns,exept Kenseth he's pretty damn good almost 400 point lead now!.It might be over!

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