Brabham BT21

[Chris Townsend]

This will probably instigate a full scale survey of pre BT28 Brabhams, but...
Can anyone help with the identity of this particular BT21

1967 Lythgoe for Alan Rollinson, then used by Dave Berry after Rollinson was injured at Ingliston [nearly typed Islington, it's hairy up the Essex Road...]
Probably delivered early season

1968 Goodwin Racing for Cyd Williams

1969 Intially retained by Goodwin then sold to John Buxton

Kept by Buxton to January 1972 when he has the car for sale in Autosport, then to Bob Howlings
Buxton ran it in F.Atlantic in 1971, hence my interest.

Chris

[David McKinney]

I have an ex-Rollinson B21 (the ex-Rollinson B21?) with Spencer Elton in 1972, then Gerry Wilkins 1975.
Cue Ted Walker?

[Chris Townsend]

So many Rollinson BT21s!

I think this is a different car [Possibly BT21B-28]
1968: Lythgoe for Rollinson once he gets better
1969: Norman Foulds
1970: Bob Howlings [MN 26.3.70, p. 19] then to Spencer Elton
1975: Gerry Wilkins

Chris

[David McKinney]

at least I tried

[Steve Wilkinson]

1967 British GP Silverstone - David Berry in the Frank Lythgoe Racing BT21
1968 British GP Brands Hatch - Berry in Lythgoe BT21 when he finished 8th.

Sprint BT21 Chassis
Yeovilton 29/03/70 Spencer Elton 1.6 Brabham-Ford/Vegantune TC BT21C-6
Curborough 18/04/71 John Ravenscroft 1.6 Brabham-Ford/Vegantune BT21A-9
Curborough 18/04/71 Tony Bradwell 4.5 Brabham-Oldsmobile BT21 Quattro
Thruxton 08/08/71 David Pullen 1.6 Brabham-Ford TC BT21B
Yeovilton 25/03/73 Spencer Elton 1.6 Brabham-Ford/Vegantune TC BT21/30
Curborough 15/04/73 Ron Hartley 1.6 Brabham-Ford BT21A
Oulton Park 03/04/76 Dennis Chorley 1.6 Brabham-Ford TC BT21B
Blackbushe 20/08/78 Leslie Stone 1.6 Brabham-Ford BT21B
Ramsay Road, I-O-M 20/06/87 Robin Boucher 1.1 Brabham-Ford/Holbay BT21
Curborough 21/04/91 Tim Barrington 1.6 Brabham-Ford TC BT21C-6

November 2004 Motor Sport and Tim Barrington has the BT21C up for sale.

Any help in identifying Chassis Numbers on the above would be appreciated.

[cavvy]

Brabham mechanic Bob Ilich returned to WA with a BT21 in bits. Raced it successfully with great duels against Craig McAllister in a Macon F2 & Elfin 622 but it had an argument with the armco just in front of the old tower at Wanneroo - driven by Col Eckert (?) at the time - no idea what happened after that.

[Bryan Miller]

We have at least 6 BT21 series cars over here , but to keep Chris in suspense I will list slowly.

One will sort out one of your sprint cars , namely BT21A-9 .

Sold new to Tony Griffith August 1967 , and quoting letter from Mr. Griffiths to the then owner Max Lane of Ausrtralia , dated 6th. March 1984.
Used mainly for hillclimbs , but from time to time used in races at Silverstone. Eng. was Ford Vegantune Twin -cam, 1588cc. British Racing Green [ specifically Winkleman green ] with a white nose band.
The car was sold in June 1969 to Tom Elton who owned a B.L. dealership in Westbury Wilshire.

We also have a letter dated 6-6-1984 from George Thornton at Brabhams advising car sold to Mr. Griffiths on 5-8-1967 , with eng. no. C13670609 and gearbox no. H5/163.

In the period 1969 - 1974 the following owners , John Brown, John Ravenscroft and then Rodger Hartley .

We then have a letter from Geoffrey Jackson advising he purchased car from Roger Hartley on 7th April 1974 complete with eng and gearbox, he sold car as a rolling chassis to Peter Bloore , date not specified.
He also advised another name connected with car prior , that being Chris Court. Jacksons letter dated 2nd August 1985.
Peter Bloore appears to have owned car 1981-2 thence Chris Crawford 1982-4 , then purchased by Max Lane from Australia , the restoration was primarily done in the U.K. before the car came over here , Max Lane owned the car untill 1991 , when it was sold to Junee resident Mike Broso , who used the car continuosly untill sold to Canberra resident Ron Coath who retains.

Bryan.

[Chris Townsend]

Bryan & Steve

Chris Court ran this BT21A in 1970, according to my notes from MN

Chris

[Bryan Miller]

Cavvy,

Yes the Bob Illich car has always been known as a BT21B.
Bob worked at Repco engines and also at Byfleet, and during 1968 built up the car and returned to Australia with the car, it was at that time fitted with a very rare Cosworth S.C.B. a 1500cc version of an S.C.A .

No chassis plate known to have been fitted , but always known by it's AM number 283.

Through various hands as you describe and at this time and since circa 1984 with Bill McCrorie , who obtained the originall Cosworth SCB and refitted it to the car.

Bryan.

[cavvy]

Thanks Bryan,
I knew the powerplant was different but the years.....

I threaten to get to a historic meet in WA in 05.

[Bryan Miller]

BT21C-3,

A bit light on early history , as it is an ex U.S.A. car .
Letter from Fred Opert 2000, advises almost sure one of the cars he bought in in 1968, appears to have gone to ,
Coleman.
Campbell.
Mike Whelan.
Mike Fitzgerald.
Wayne Taylor [ restoration 1994-8 ].
Mark Leonard 1998-99.
John Ashwell 1999 , resident of Casino , N.S.W. Australia.

Also in letter from Opert, he advises he had his own special car which would have been ch. no. 2,3,4 or 5, this car had a Hewland Mk 7 , 6 speed and an 1100cc Cosworth S.C.C fuel injected engine.

BT21C-12.

Another U.S.A. car , seems to be new to Mr. C.H.Adams of Springfield Illinois .
Returned to Australia in March 1983 with Gary Simkin , when he returned from working in the states , sold to George Goodare of Sydney , rebuilt and used in Historic racing ever since , 1989-1995 Mr. Howard Blight of Sydney, 1995-1998 Mr. Rob. Bailey of Victoria , 1-12-1998 to Mr. Nereo Dizane [ the late ] still with his estate.

Prior to Howard Blight car was owned by Peter Addison of Sydney .

Bryan.

[275 GTB-4]

Bryan,

John is a Dr in Lismore....search using his name on AtlasF1....he is also a lucky lucky boy after the shunt at Turn 9 Eastern Creek in front of me....:-(

[allenbrown]

CH Adams would presumably be Charlie Adams who drove a BT21C in the Continental Championship in 1968. See here and here.

Allen

[Chris Townsend]

Charlie Adams indeed used this car all the way into 1970 in FB races I think - either that or he gets another BT21C, which seems perverse...

Didn't solve the Buxton car yet, but as Brabham built about 100 BT21s in various guises I'm sure we've got hours of endless fun to go with this thread!

Chris

[RAP]

According to F1R F3 Fact Book 27 March 1967 Silverstone A Rollinson is in BT21-18. Entered by F Lythgoe. However, 23 June 1968 Cyd Williams is shown as BT21-49 so I'm not sure where BT21-18 fits in 1968?


RAP

[Chris Townsend]

RAP, who is the entrant on the Cyd Williams 21-49 in June 68?
Is it Goodwin Racing or Frank Williams?

Chris

[RAP]

23 June 68 Mallory Park Cyd Williams Goodwin Racing BT21-49
20 July 68 Brands Hatch Cyd Williams Goodwin Racing BT21-49
14 Sept 68 Oulton Park Cyd Williams Goodwin Racing BT21-49
All per F1R F3 Fact Book

RAP

[Steve Wilkinson]

The following is a list of drivers/entrants/chassis types from the three Formula Three races I saw in 1967/68:

15/07/67 Silverstone - Push Rod Trophy Race

Ken Crook - Bernard Lewis Racing - BT18
David Berry - Frank Lythgoe Racing Ltd - BT15
Barrie Maskell - A.G.Dean (Racing) Ltd - BT15
Peter Westbury - F.I.R.S.T. - BT21 Felday
Derek Bell - F.I.R.S.T. - BT21 Felday
Alan Rollinson - David Bridges - BT21 Holbay (stated as being a 'new' BT21)
Peter Gethin - Sports Motors (Manchester) Ltd - BT21
Chris M.M. Williams - Chris Williams Racing Ltd - BT21 Holbay
Graham Coaker - driver - BT18
Chris Meek - Gilbert Baird - BT18
Peter Gaydon - Special Motor Racing Team - BT18
Chris Jackson - Barry Payne Auto Services - BT21 Holbay
David Morgan - driver - BT10/15
David Williamson - P. & M. Racing Preparations - BT18
Mike Walker - Frank Manning Racing Ltd - BT21
Peter Fattorini - driver - BT21
Richard Knight - Winfield Racing Organisation - BT21
Mike Knight - Ian Walker - BT21
Michael Keens - driver - BT21
Harry Stiller - Lucas (Engineering) Ltd - BT21
Tetsu Ikusawa - Motor Racing Stables - BT21

25/05/68 Monte Carlo 10th Grand Prix de Monaco F3
Wayne Mitrchell - Paul B Watson
Carlos Giro - driver
Renne Ligonnet - Pennelier Racing Organisation
Jean-Pierre Cassegrain - BP France
Patrick Champin - driver
Alain Franceschi - driver
Philippe Vidal - driver - BT21
Jean-Francois Gerbault - driver
Harry Stiller - Ken Bass Racing Limited - BT23C Lucas (F2 ex-works/Troberg)
Philip Tose - Ian Walker Team Celerity
Peter Westbury - Ian Walker Team Celerity - BT21B IWR
Richard Burton - Frank Williams Racing Cars Ltd
Michael Keens - P & M Racing Preparations
David Williamson - P & M Racing Preparations
Peter Gethin - Frank Lythgoe Racing Ltd - BT21B
Francesco Ghezzi - driver
Ulf Svensson - driver - BT21B Lucas
Egert Haglund - Team Baltzar Racing
Per Jonas Qvarnstrom - driver - BT21B Lucas
Peter Korda - The Jurg Dubler Racing Organisation
Bernard Baur - Midland Racing Team Switzerland
Georges Schafer - Wicky Racing Team
NB all unassigned chassis were either BT21 or BT21B!

20/07/68 Brands Hatch The Clearway Trophy Race
Kinny Lall - Paul B. Watson - BT21
Tony Lanfranchi - Alan Fraser - BT21
Richard Burton - Frank Williams Racing Cars - BT21B
Tetsu Ikusawa - Frank Williams Racing Cars - BT21B
David Berry - Frank Lythgoe Racing Ltd. - BT21B
Michael Beuttler - driver - BT21
Barrie Maskell - driver - BT21B
Michael Keens - driver - BT21B
Peter Westbury - Ian Walker Team Celerity - BT21B
Alex Trotter - P & M Racing Preparations Ltd. - BT21B
David Williamson - P & M Racing Preparations Ltd. - BT21B
Cyd Williams - Goodwin Racing - BT21

[Chris Townsend]

RAP

Sorry, more questions! Is 21-18 the only Lythgoe car in 1967 used by Rollinson, or is a number given for that new car highlighted by Steve as appearing in July? Or is there a late season car? 49 is the highest chassis no I have for BT21s.

Is a number given for the 21 used by George Lewis in 1968 which was also entered by Goodwin Racing?

I think that 21-49 is likely to be the Buxton car. This car is now in the USA and the owner had remarked that it was 'ex Williams' but I'm guessing now that this could as easily be Cyd as Frank!

Chris

[RAP]

Unfortunatly F1R book has no chassis numbers for BT21 for any date in 67 other than 27 March so can't help with first Q

BT21 numbers in 68 are -
35 Cassegrain 23 June
32 Jacobsson 23 June
49 Cyd Williams 23/6, 20/7, 14/9
15 D Powell 23/6
5 N Foulds 23/6 ( D Bridges Rcg)
20 H Ganley 23/6
46 P Tose (I WAlker/Celerity) 23/6
42 K Lall (P WAtson) 20/7
12 M Beuttler 20/7
2 N Goodwin (Goodwin Rcg) 20/7 & 17/5/69
16 J Campbell 14/9

43 R Burton (F Wiliams) 20/7 Listed as BT21B in one place but BT21 chassis number so could be either? I have BT21B as a mark up in my Prog (I was there)
Doesn't really answer any of your questions I'm afraid but of interest anyway, I hope.(Don't worry about asking - pooling our info is the only way to answer some questions),

RAP

[allenbrown]

On the subject of BT21 production numbers, I have a production list from MRD dated 13 Sep 1967 that lists 2 BT21s from 1966 and 47 from 1967. Up to that point, just 10 Ford 1600cc libre BT21As had been built, a single F3 BT21B and the Ford 1600cc libre BT21C was shown as at "Drawing Stage".

However, a handwritten note at the foot of the page if headed "Additional cars built Aug Sep 1967 to 16th Jan 1968" and shows a single F3 BT21 under the 1968 column.

For comparison, the Lawrence book (p205) shows production as 4 - 45 - 1, so at least it agrees on the single 1968 car.

So if 50 BT21s were built, I'd expect the highest number to be 50 or 51.

Allen

[Chris Townsend]

OK

I think I solved my query about the Buxton car.
There are several more obscure BT21s in Atlantic still to work out, but I thought that I would have a stab at working out those 50 or so BT21s, based on RAPs chassis numbers and my own notes from the press about who bought whose car:

BT21-1. December 1966. to Frank Williams used by Viannini in Temporada.

2: December 1966. Charlie Crichton Stuart in Temporada, then to Natalie Goodwin as her own car. Retained to end 69 then to Tony Birchenough.

3: Jan 67 Felday for Derek Bell. 1968 Jeff Holdrup

4: ?

5: March 67 Anglo Spanish Racing for Adan Czartoryski. 1968 David Bridges for Norman Foulds

6: ? By 1970 in Australia with Graham Baker

7: By 1968 in NZ with Graham Harvey

8: By 1969 run by Bill Stone with t/c engine

9: March 67 Anglo Spanish racing for Brian Classick, 1968 maybe Peter Hanson, 1969 to Cam Mackenzie [Canada] for FB races and still in Vancouver or thereabouts today

10: ?

11: March 67 Kurt Ahrens, 1969: Willi Deutsch

12: March 67: MRS for Harry Stiller and Tony Lanfranchi, sold to Charles Lucas and used by Stiller, Bev Bond and Lucas. 1968 Mike Beuttler, 1969 sold to Fred Opert along with Jupp's BT21

13: Probably not built

14: ?

15: March 67 for Peter Westbury, 1968 Davey Powell, 1969 - 70 Ronnie Mackay, 1971 Vivian Candy

16: March 67 Richard Burton, 1968 John Campbell, 1969 Campbell to Wayne Mitchell and then on to James Hunt. 1970 Terry Harmer

17: ?

18: March 67 Lythgoe for Alan Rollinson and then Dave Berry

19: March 67 Ian Walker Racing for rent a drivers including Revson, Nunn and Hitchcock 1968 Phil Tose [still owned by Walker?] then 1969 Mike Stow and also used by Graham Coaker and David Cole

20: March 67 Howden Ganley, retained 1968

21: March 67 Mike Keens

22 - 27 not a clue

28: Winfield Racing for Mike Knight then 1968 to Len Gibbs and retained

29: April 67 Mike Walker, 1968 - 69 Chris Court

30: Chris Lambert with FVA engine. 1968 damaged in trailer accident, sold damaged to Joseph Erlich and rebuilt for Bev Bond/George Dixon, may not race in this format, 1971 Jonny Dimsdale for Atlantic races

31: April 67 Ulf Svensson

More to come

[David McKinney]

My period notes say Harvey's car was BT21A-7, which is presumably a different beast from BT21-7.
Baker's was the ex-Harvey
Bert Hawthorne's car, landed NZ about November 1967, was said to be BT21-9 - maybe it was BT21A-9?

[RAP]

FRom F1R Fact Book 27/3/67

BT21-4 Derek Bell
BT21 - 13 Rollo Fielding
BT21-14 Chris Williams

Agreed re 5, 11, 12, 15, 18, 20, 29.

With due thanks to who ever took the notes !!!

[Bryan Miller]

All, especially David. BT21A .? BT21.? -7

The ex Graeme Harvey car is in Australia.

Called out as 1966 build , 1st event December 1966 at Pukekohe, thence to Les Jones 1967-8 , then to Graham Baker 1968-70 , thence Allan Rhodes 1970-3 , then Russell Noble 1973-5 , then Neil Whittaker 1975-2001, sold to Robert Hands of Melbourne .
David do you concur.?
We have A.M. number but no chassis no.
Car is now for sale via Len Selbys site in the U.K.

If David agrees then you have chassis -6 idle again.
My build sheets advise ,

BT21 x 49 in 1966. as F3
BT21A x 10 in 1967 as F.Libre.
BT21B x 30 in 1968 as F3.
BT21C x 19 in 1968 as F.Libre.

Total of 108 cars , plus at least 1 x backdoor car I have already listed.

BT21 - 48 , sold new? to Frank Williams [ less engine but with MK 4 Hewland , we have the AM no. on car , and it appears this went straight to the U.S.A .
Has been in Australia since 1999, chassis plate is on car , and history back to early 1970's .

An advert in Autosport Nov. 9 1972 ,BT21A , page 51, John Wingfields sucessful race winning Libre car , a genuine works built car , not to be confused with a converted F3 , for sale.

Bryan.